What are you complaining about?

[thepiranhabros]

With the Nationals inspection debates going strong in other threads here on HydroRacer, I think it's high time somebody ask the $64,000 question: What side are you on?

Are you on the side complaining that the rules were followed because Dave Anderson was disqualified from the Nationals in DSH by the Race Inspector for not having a required plug in the belly pan of his Tohatsu?

Or...

Are you on the side complaining that the rules were not followed because Matt Dagostino's ASH win was reinstated by an SORC override of the Race Inspector's call of illegal pickle forks on the Stillwell hull?

Make up your minds!

Half of you don't support the Race Inspector's ruling in the Anderson case, and the other half does support it in the Dagostino case. (But then you complain about the SORC override.)

Sounds to me like you want to follow the rules only when they are convenient or beneficial. Sorry, but rules don't work that way.

For the record, knowing what I know now, my opinion is that both Anderson and Dagostino should have been disqualified. Per.The. Rules. Nothing personal. Just black and white rules.

Flame on.

[DiGia54D]

If its in the rule book then they should use the rules ALL THE TIME... I know the fact that the hull passed inspections at other races is irrelvent.. But the boat passed inspection before the race, then same inspector tossed boat after the finals, then reinstated 15 minutes after that. Now an appeal to get him tossed again.
I am on the side of the rule book.

[sponsonhead]

Great Post!

If this were Facebook, I would put a "LIKE" to this!

As for me, I am of the thinking that if it's in the Rule Book, then you enforce it. No exceptions. If in the act of enforcing the rule, it's found to be problematic, then address it at the National Meeting, not at the race site.

Let's attempt to fix the process if and when needed, and not react to an event.

But before I close.....let me refer you to one of the Great American Philosophers and their view on this very issue.

Ladies and Gentlemen: I give you.....Cosmo Kramer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gO1iYcHRcW0

"Hey, a rule is a rule, and let's face it: without rules.....there's chaos."

R-19

[14J]

I'm in favor of anything that does not work in favor of Captain America. Come on the guy talks about himself in third person. Throw him out!

Love you Matt, aren't you glad you ran ASH at the nationals

[jpro60]

I've got no issue at all with stating on the record that both should have been tossed. If we don't enforce our rules then why do we bother having them in the first place. It would sure be a lot simpler if the rule book had one rule that said "If a question of the legality of any persons actions or equipment arise, then a decision shall be made by the race committee or category commission to disqualify the person or not".
But lets all face it, that would suck!

[jtower3941]

ASH Nationals

I can understand this:
I go and have my boat safety inspected by the inspector and he passes the boat. So I feel that everything OK. Run the race and get DQ'd for safety rule. I say ha, if you told me that before the race I would have fixed it. You did this with the helmet rule. Inspector said fix it or else. What's up. Was the boat safety inspected before the nationals race?
Yes the inspector failed to notice or considered it legal. Not my problem that the interpatation was different by different inspectors or was it the same inspector. In this case a safety rule was missed, not a speed performance issue. If it was so important a safety rule, and I belive it is, the boat should not have passed the pre-race inspection.
If the owner/driver was not warned about the safety rule, what does the rule book say about this.

If the inspectors helpers are not given a pre-race chk list. I think somebody suggested that we do this for nationals. Lets not make the inspectors helpers the goat when they volunteer their time or owner/driver.

If you pass, you should not be DQ'd.

[ricochet112]

Both were legit DQ's, 0 points for both.

[KURPS]

Come On!

I can understand this:
I go and have my boat safety inspected by the inspector and he passes the boat. So I feel that everything OK. Run the race and get DQ'd for safety rule. I say ha, if you told me that before the race I would have fixed it. You did this with the helmet rule. Inspector said fix it or else. What's up. Was the boat safety inspected before the nationals race?
Yes the inspector failed to notice or considered it legal. Not my problem that the interpatation was different by different inspectors or was it the same inspector. In this case a safety rule was missed, not a speed performance issue. If it was so important a safety rule, and I belive it is, the boat should not have passed the pre-race inspection.
If the owner/driver was not warned about the safety rule, what does the rule book say about this.

If the inspectors helpers are not given a pre-race chk list. I think somebody suggested that we do this for nationals. Lets not make the inspectors helpers the goat when they volunteer their time or owner/driver.

If you pass, you should not be DQ'd.

Can't you read the Rules yourself? That's the problem with this country, the younger people thinks someone else should provide them with all the fixes in life. Read and understand your rules, make what ever changes and go race!

[lngnckboatworks]

Rule book ????

what rule book , i didnt get one, half the time the apba sites pages wont load. how is anyone supposed to see the CURRENT RULES ??????????

[Bill Huson]

I'm not complaining - woke up on the sunny side of the grass this morning, which at my age is a huge plus :-)

[STEVE FRENCH]

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Team 12R]

both shoulda been pitched

With the Nationals inspection debates going strong in other threads here on HydroRacer, I think it's high time somebody ask the $64,000 question: What side are you on?

Are you on the side complaining that the rules were followed because Dave Anderson was disqualified from the Nationals in DSH by the Race Inspector for not having a required plug in the belly pan of his Tohatsu?

Or...

Are you on the side complaining that the rules were not followed because Matt Dagostino's ASH win was reinstated by an SORC override of the Race Inspector's call of illegal pickle forks on the Stillwell hull?

Make up your minds!

Half of you don't support the Race Inspector's ruling in the Anderson case, and the other half does support it in the Dagostino case. (But then you complain about the SORC override.)

Sounds to me like you want to follow the rules only when they are convenient or beneficial. Sorry, but rules don't work that way.

For the record, knowing what I know now, my opinion is that both Anderson and Dagostino should have been disqualified. Per.The. Rules. Nothing personal. Just black and white rules.

Flame on.

when i asked if there was more to "MY VERY GOOD FRIEND" dave getting pitched i was attacked bad here. talking to someone in the know i found that there was a little more to the story. i think the tohatsu rule needs re-written but as it was at time of the nationals the ruling should stand. i see now why dave didn't pony up a donation to support the crown fund. my biggest apology to the inspector on my original comments.

the DQ on the ASH sponson tips should have been upheld. dave's tohatsu had the same inspection stickers. that argument doesn't hold water. SAFETY is the most important thing.

i agree with mackey.

[reed28n]

Rules were followed

Both were legit disqualifications. and "I Captain I" was reinstated according to that same rule book. The race committe did a good job in both cases.

The issue is 90% of us know 50% of what is in the rule book. If you sit down and follow the black white of the printed rules you will have to agree that the outcome was correct.

Keep in mind the inspectors are racers. I witnessed first hand the anxiety the inpsectors go through and the information they check and double check to give the driver every benefit of the doubt.

The rules are where we need to focus. If we are going to have a rule we are required to follow them, both for insurance and integrity. If we do not feel they are all enforceable then the rules need to be removed from the rule book.

[reed28n]

More of the story

Enforcement was one of the reasons that I opposed the pickle fork rule for stock while I was the SORC Chairman. There was an incredible aount of pressure from APBA to pass a rule to address what was felt at the time to be a critical safety concern.

We buckled and appointed a committee. We implemented a rule we felt was fairly easy to understand and enforce.

There is where APBA could take a step forward. No commission should have their own safety rule. Each commission should send a delegate to a Safety Committee and that committe should make rules that are universal.

Some of the pressure was because Pro passed a rule, Mod passed a rule and Stock did nothing?

So as much as I hate to say it we should have one dimesion for all kneel down boats.

[csh2z]

I am not in favor of the commission having reinstating the disqualification of this boat. However, I understand the reasoning for doing so. There was a loophole created by an oversight on the original safety inspection. We learn from it and move on.
As far as the rule itself is concerned. There were two major reasons we did not adopt the Mod/Pro rule. The first is the Mod/Pro rule would have exempted all boats built prior to the approval of the rule. Why have a rule, particularly for safety, if it does not apply to 90% of the boats on the water? Does that solve the problem? I wanted our rule to apply to all boats because you can't choose which boat is going to run through your cockpit. Second, many of our smaller boats have little tiny pickleforks that would have been very difficult to comply with the Mod/Pro rule. It was a compromise. As Scott said, the BOD demanded a rule.
As a reminder: If you run your Stock boat in Mod it must comply with the Mod rule.