Grass Lake ASH Appeal to National Commissioner

[mercguy]

I'll start...

NO is not right.

in all actuallity, I agree with you Don!!!!! Maybe just take away Matt's birthday (he would probably like that though...LOL)............

the man won the race on the racecourse legitimately, let's not take that away from him, as we all know how hard it is to do that!!!!

yes, it was a safety rule, but was it ever proved that pointy pickles are dangerous? If so, why are not runabouts bound to the same rule?

you owe me a beer Don at the Nat Meeting for agreeing with you.........LOL

[Big Don]

I'll buy you one.

[pav225]

in all actuallity, I agree with you Don!!!!

Ut oh. These 2 agreeing makes me start to think that the Mayans may be right....

[Racerkyle20]

I agree with Don on this one.

It's complete BS that this has gone so far.

Matt's boat passed pre-inspection and that should be the end of it. It had a safety sticker. To penalize the driver for the inspectors miss is just wrong.

What a way to win a nationals. Sure seems a little hollow to me. Enjoy your triumph.

Tim

The inspection sticker this year at nats was your 2012 apba inspection sticker. There was no nationals pre race boat inspection. Technically anyone could have changed anything on their boat pre nats race. That's not what happened here I'm sure, but the inspector decided to have boat inspection post race. He didn't meet the spec. Case closed. It sucks. It's aweful for Matt and George. But someone didn't think the sorc could over rule a safety rule that the chief inspector Ruled illegal. Is it fair the boat earlier in the year passed a safety inspection wrongly? No. but is it not the responsibility of the driver/owner to make sure everything is legal? Yes. Sorry. This appeal went though the correct apba appeals process and won. The issue should be done with. I'm done commenting on this thread.

[ajennings4p]

The inspection sticker this year at nats was your 2012 apba inspection sticker. There was no nationals pre race boat inspection. Technically anyone could have changed anything on their boat pre nats race. That's not what happened here I'm sure, but the inspector decided to have boat inspection post race. He didn't meet the spec. Case closed. It sucks. It's aweful for Matt and George. But someone didn't think the sorc could over rule a safety rule that the chief inspector Ruled illegal. Is it fair the boat earlier in the year passed a safety inspection wrongly? No. but is it not the responsibility of the driver/owner to make sure everything is legal? Yes. Sorry. This appeal went though the correct apba appeals process and won. The issue should be done with. I'm done commenting on this thread.

Kyle i have read everything on this thread. you don't have to comment, which i have done since now. since the decision is to DQ Matt. i will now comment, there should have been the pre safety inspection before the nationals like there is every year. this issue and all of the other issues ( kill switch, steering cables/clamps exc) would have been found, fixed, and legal again. i for one do not like the decision that was made that you don't need to get a national safety sticker. this will probably go on all the way to the national meeting. however ill just throw this out there. why not have reinforced cockpit sides? doesn't pro have a rule like this?

[Dave M]

Precedent

Not sure if I spelled that right, but Ed can correct me if need be. With this ruling a precedent has been set within your organization. I urge all of you to get in compliance with ALL your safety rules. If not, you have created a back door sort to speak to be stripped of your titles, whether it be first place or last place.

Whether you agree with the ruling or not, a big step was taken. I suggest each of you place a copy of the general & safety rules next to your toliets and read them often. Becasue you know there are those that will nit pick your equipment. Just in my opinion only, I think the statement made is along the lines of the rule book is NEVER going to get smaller, it will only grow, so be prepared to make a lot of changes to your equipment if you are even remotley close to be in violation.

[Team 12R]

nationals inspection sticker

i have a "2011 wakefield nationals" inspection sticker in my boat. did this not happen at grass lake? jennings and meatball were all over it last year.

as i commented months ago. "the lack of safety or enforcment of the rules is why our costs have risen". my answer to Don is YES... sometimes it takes an "arms-length" opinion to help us past our self-interest ignorance.

i'm a little surprised about all the "poopy-pants". black and white as i see it.

[GarE-12]

A rule is a rule.

There seems to be a basic difference of philosophy that determines how people view this matter. There is the follow the rule of law group, “a rule is a rule” view, and there is the equity group, “let’s look at the facts of the situation and decide from there what is fair” view.

In my experience referees and inspectors usually handle rule violations via a self-imposed combination of both. They will know the rule of law but consider the facts when deciding a ruling. In the absence of extenuating facts or presence of conflicting facts they will make the ruling based on the rule of law, knowing that there are tools in place to have further judgments made and equity considered (race committees, commissions).

I guess there is simplicity in rule of law and it does make it easy on the enforcers of the rules, no decisions have to be made, just follow the rules and be done with it. However, if you are ever on the receiving end of a ruling based solely on the law without consideration of the facts it can seem unfair.

Two anecdotes.

When we first started racing we were very enthusiastic and ready to race actual APBA sanctioned events. Early on, after having finally won or placed in a race we were kicked out for an improper gas tank ring, no speed advantage, but seems the rule was the motor had to have the proper stock appearance. Man was Dad pissed. As this was early in our racing days, we didn’t know all the rules and seems that we had run this motor before with no problems, just had not finished well enough to get any attention from the officials. It didn’t seem fair and I think it defined the rest of my father’s APBA racing career. As he gained experience and standing in APBA racing, finally taking on responsibilities of refereeing and inspecting his underlying philosophy was one of equity, especially for the little guys, newbies, families and others with no “standing” in the organization. It was always a question of the facts, the intent and what was fair. He had no problem kicking racers out but it was always for a good reason and with an eye as to what was fair and usually with a talk about why it was done and how to rectify the situation for the next race. That being said members of our family always knew never to get near the starting line when he was referee, if it just appeared we were over we got kicked out.



This year at DePue a racer had half the tip of his sponson sliced off by a jumping catfish. As a result the sponson did not meet the radius rule and he was kicked out. (not true but an interesting scenario to consider)