latest on PRO radio rule

[bill van steenwyk]

I was just informed by seeing a copy of a communication from Steve Greaves
to the rest of the PRO Commission that the APBA Board of Directors came with
a decision to allow racing commissions to make safety rules WITHOUT A VOTE
OF THE CATEGORY MEMBERSHIP. This of course was in reply to the appeal of
the radio rule last summer by Todd Brinkman and I and the finding by the
appeal committee that at that time that could not be done legally. So where
do we go from here? Anybody want to guess what one of the first items on
the agenda at the APBA National Meeting will be for the PRO Commission?
As the saying goes, my horse is not in the race anymore, as my equipment
as well as the rest of the Prop Riders equipment is sold and gone, but I still
see it the same way now as I did then.
BUT, I guess I'm in the minority as all the rest of you (the PRO Membership) that was seemingly against the way this whole matter was
handled at the last annual meeting just relected the same bunch to do the
same thing probably to you, all over again. Looks like there is much truth to
the old saying, you get the representation you deserve. I just hope what happened in the stock catagory last year doesn't happen in the PRO Catagory
because someone is denied safety equipment that could prevent an accident or fatality because of personal agenda reasons.

[Steve Johnson]

I don't understand us sometimes...

Radios should be required equipt. ( all classes)
this sport is deadly enough as it is. to disregard a potentally lifesaving device is just silly. It sure ain't the cost, Capsule retrofits were way more expensive, and those got ram-rodded through. everyone can afford a radio. If not borrow one. I would rather everyone had one than most of the other safety regulations combined.
Steve

[BratChild]

Mistake waiting to happen...

I hope the PRO commision doesn't make this same mistake again. My Dad bought me a helmet restraint and radio and I am not allowed back in a boat without this IMPORTANT SAFTEY EQUIPMENT.

Most motor sports REQUIRE the use of radios as saftey equipment and there is a lot of great information on the internet about this. Banning radios is a law suit waiting to happen.

Please do not make this same mistake again,
Amy Eldredge

[Howie Nichols]

Here is the by-law change approved at last night's BOD meeting.

12.7.1 Category Safety Rules shall be determined by the appropriate racing commission without going to ballot of the category members. A safety rule is defined as a rule to reduce the likelihood of injury or danger, as it's primary purpose. All safety rules shall be reviewed by the Safety Committee and become effective 30 days after passage by the Commission with publication in the Propeller Magazine or posted on the APBA website. In an emergency, after approval of the Safety Committee, a safety rule can become effective immediately, provided reasonable notice is given to all participants.

12.7.2 All members of record as of October 31, and those of record from October 31 until two weeks before the ballot mailing date, shall be eligible to vote on category racing and technical rule changes. A technical rule is defined as a rule that pertains to a mechanical art or science. The rule change ballot will contain one or several of the following:
a) Any technical rule change proposed by at least 30% of all members registered in the class concerned, but in no event fewer than four members of any class.
b) Any category rule change proposed by at least 30% of all members possessing registered racing equipment in the category concern.
c) Any category racing rule or category technical rule change proposed by a majority vote of the racing commission concerned.

12.7.6 Remove the word "General" from the second sentence. Otherwise, same as current by-laws.

To define 12.7.1 better, basically the commission can vote on a "safety" rule then it will go to the Safety Committe for review. The Safety Committee will make any recommendations positive or negative and return it to the commission. This is when the commission will actually approve or reject that rule. So in other words it is not just the commission looking at the rule but the "SAFETY COMMITTEE" as well. This should create a checks and balance for the commission to ensure the best for all. Hope this helps you all.

[bill van steenwyk]

regards BOD action on safety rules

Howie:

Many thanks for publishing the by-law change. On its face it seems to be
a reasonable offering, BUT now I will let you know what Greaves said in his note to all the PRO Commissioners announcing the BOD action, and I quote, "It's not exactly the version that Howard Anderson and I were pushing for. (referring to the BOD action and wording.
This passed version contains a "review"role for the National Safety Committee. As long as this always remains just a "review", and doesen't evolve into some sort of an "approval" process; the authority of the Commission over Catagory Safety Rules is clear.
So, bottom line, the authority for commissions to make Catagory Safety Rules, which was taken away by the "Radio Ban" Appeal Hearing Committee's
decision last summer, now has been re-established in the APBA by-laws.
I apreciate the Commission's support as we worked through this process."
Steve G.
END OF QUOTE BY GREAVES.

If you read this carefully, I don't see how you can come to any conclusion
but that the PRO Commission takes this by-law change to mean they can
do anything they want, any time, as long as the rule implementation would
be couched in "Safety"terms. Hopefully the National Safety Committee would intervene, but it is clear the commission now thinks they have carte blance to do what they want regards the passing of a rule couched as a "safety rule" As previously mentioned on this site, I was
privy to many communications between the various members of the PRO
commission, when the rule was first passed and up to the appeal process, and the "Radio Rule" had very little to do with safety, and almost
everything to do with personal agenda's of commission members. I would urge
any concerned member to make your feelings known on this matter to your
commissioners, for what ever little good it might do. They didn't pay any
attention last time, and I have seen nothing since then that makes me believe
that has changed. If you feel strongly about this issue, you might contact
Lee Gieling with the insurance company, although that will probably get you
threatened with expulson/suspension by APBA Legal Counsel as it did me.
Mr. Gieling came out strongly in an issue of the Propellor for radio use in all
catagories. THIS COMMISSION HAS IT'S OWN AGENDA REGARDS THE USE OF
RADIOS AND IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SAFETY.
Be alert for action they may take in Atlanta. Don't say you were not warned.

Bill Van Steenwyk

[Howie Nichols]

Just an FYI, the insurance coverage is now being handled through K&K. They offered a very nice package with lower rates and superior coverage versus what we had last year.

Also the commission has to present it's rule changes to the BOD for approval before they become law.

[Sam776]

Lee Gieling isn't our insurence carrier any longer it is now K&K insurence. Sam

[Xracer]

Howie:

... THIS COMMISSION HAS IT'S OWN AGENDA REGARDS THE USE OF
RADIOS AND IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SAFETY.

Bill Van Steenwyk

And that agenda would be what?

[David Weaver]

Radio Disagreement

Seems to me that the difference in opinion on this matter concerns what type of information being conveyed from shore to the driver.

Bill's opinion (and many others) on the radio (and he might correct me if I am wrong) is that it is an essential safety measure. A spotter on shore can convey to a driver that a boat has flipped or broken down or that the red flag is being thrown, etc. Certainly this increases the driver's awareness of an on course situation and is a good thing.

The "other side" (and there are many) says, well that the above is nice, but we have also seen drivers utilize information being provided to alter their course during the race in order to block a potential pass. And this increases the chances of a collision, since the boat being over taken would not normally have altered its course. There is also a cocnern that the driver may only hear a portion of the message from shore and react in an unintended manner. And finally there is the thought that outboard racing should be one on one. You should have to make starts against the clock on your own without guidance from shore.

I suggested the following to some members of the PRO Commission as a compromise:

All drivers may use a radio receiver during the race. The radios shall all be set at the same frequency. There shall be one or two spotters for the entire field of boats using the one frequency to warn drivers of potential on-course problems. Otherwise, the spotters would remain quiet.

I do not see how anyone on either side of this argument could have a problem with this suggestion, unless they have another "agenda".

Just my opinion , I welcome yours.

[Joe J]

Commissions are in place to insure that the rules are handled in a fair and honest manner. Otherwise the inmates are running the asulym.

As for letting our commissioners know, I had my local commissioner ask me about this very rule.

I have had a radio in my boat over the years, and honestly hated it, but it was required by the rules of the series we raced. I don't need somebody distracting me as I am concentrating on driving.

Joe

[SunRiseRacing]

just my opinion

I agree with David Weaver, if the radios are for SAFETY ONLY then all the judge's stand should be the only one's with contact to the drivers. If a Red, blue and white, or even black flag is thrown, it all goes through the judge's stand.

Just my opinion!

[Steve Johnson]

Judges stand fine

I'd be O.K. with all transmissions going thru the judges stand. My other option would be to have my darling wife on the other end, that might be more distraction than I could take . ( slow down, watch out, did you remember to take out the trash? ect...
Steve

[Kevin Martin]

i agree with davids proposal. kevin

[sam]

I think one of the proposals from the original thread was to corral the transmitters (spotters) and have them supervised by a race offical (pit boss, maybe?).

I have no problem with the judge's stand being the only communicator with the racers .... as long as the radios used are FRS and not VHF. FRS's are just about cheap enough to throw away .... water proof VHF's cost as much as a prop.


A lot of the arguement against radios seems to hinge around passing and lane changes. As far as I know, no one has suggested any changes to these rules which would still be in effect .... overlap is overlap whether you have a radio or not. Perhaps what the anti-radio group really feels is that the overlap rule should be changed to extend the distance between boats/lanes.

"For radio" guys please take the overlap is overlap/rules are still in effect arguement with you to the convention. Another thought: pit crews and fans have forever tried to signal things to drivers from the shore by waving their arms one way or another ... should this be illegal too?

[m174]

The only problem with all the drivers hearing all the same information is if you have ever been in a capsule, there is enough to do and watch out for, granted would be a good thing to hear about problems on the course, I had radios for the last 2 years I ran and they became more of a bother than trying to use them escpecially trying to talk to the shore, lots of noise inside and didnt work, my primary use was only to let me know when the one minute gun went off, dont know about the other classes using them, but if used incorectly or for personal gain, then what happened to the old one on one racing, much less Sportsmanship, if you need a radio to win or make it to your advantage to win, maybe those guys should go back and play with their video games and use cheat codes, just a few cents worth