Helmet Certs

[sam]

I fully agree with you that if drivers are trained to avoid anything orange in a panic situation then the race course would be a safer place........all helmets, jackets, buoy's, cut suits etc etc. should have been left orange!

I ride with the Captain on this

[bill van steenwyk]

Bureaucrats, by any other name, ALWAYS need to make new rules and regulations, if for no other reason to show how important and busy they are, and especially where safety is concerned, to impress the members and insurance carriers with how much they are doing to keep costs down and folks safe.

And then when there are many other things that could be done at little or no cost (like keeping everything orange) they refuse to act!

Oh I forgot, in that case, acting would require NO ACTION, and then the first paragraph would not apply anymore.

[ram95]

We're smothering our sport with good intentions.

[G Stillwill]

I dont think there is any perfect color as all colors disapear in certain light conditions, be it orange,yellow or lime green. In a turn with a face full of water you dont see any color and just hope no one screws up. Normal instinct is not to run over anything thats in front of you and thinking you have time to think of a color not to run over never enters into it.

[ricochet112]

Bureaucrats, by any other name, ALWAYS need to make new rules and regulations, if for no other reason to show how important and busy they are, and especially where safety is concerned, to impress the members and insurance carriers with how much they are doing to keep costs down and folks safe.

And then when there are many other things that could be done at little or no cost (like keeping everything orange) they refuse to act!

Oh I forgot, in that case, acting would require NO ACTION, and then the first paragraph would not apply anymore.

Were you still racing when other colors than orange became legal?

[bill van steenwyk]

Yes, I did race when colors other than orange were legal, and I know from personal experience how it feels to run over someone who has been thrown from their boat in a corner when they were just becoming visible as the top of their helmet came up to the top of the water and I saw a little spot of orange about the size of a coffee cup saucer.

Seeing that little spot of orange gave me enough time and warning to jerk the wheel and the impact with his head was on my sponson, not the lower unit or prop, so yes I have some experience with what I am talking about, DO YOU????

[Danny Pigott]

Orange

Ricochet 112 , you need to research who some of the people on here are and all they have seen happen though the years they have been in boat racing before you make a statement about them. And yes orange is the right color for helmets and cut suits

[blueskyracer]

This is just a question but why do we have helmets that are the same color as our buoys or why do we have buoys the same color as our helmets??

[bill van steenwyk]

No scientific basis that I know of for this answer.......

BUT...........

In the 1950's "Day-Glo orange" became a standard for high visibility markings on anything (airplanes at first) that needed to be recognized quickly. The reasons were several mid-air collisions between airplanes, for as jets became more prevalent, and before the 250 kt below 10K altitude speed limit came to be, closing speeds were very high and it was harder to see someone who might pose a hazard. One of these was the Grand Canyon collision between two passenger planes, which was the largest aircraft death toll at the time, although neither was a jet.

I would assume (although I have no certain knowledge) that since this orange color was becoming common on objects that you wanted to avoid collisions with, it was a natural to paint other things that had high closing rates the same color, or at least that would seem to be a natural progression.


That is why it is hard to understand the thinking of APBA Safety and Board members to make these changes, as it flys in the face of what has been common knowledge for 40+ years. ANYTHING that requires a driver to question "what is that, its not orange" can cause extra time involved in making a decision that could result in the difference between having an accident and not having one. And believe me there is no sicker feeling than hearing and feeling the impact of hitting another drivers helmet with your boat and thinking you have killed him. Luckily that was not the case in my incident, BUT IF IT HAD BEEN ANY OTHER COLOR THAN ORANGE I SAW, and I only had that split second to react, I have no doubt the driver would have been hit by my lower unit and prop instead of my left sponson and fin. That is another reason I fought so hard for the PRO radio rule, so as to allow a driver to have equipment that allowed some warning if something like this happened in front of him.

In the 1950's when I first started racing, my jacket was red and white,(and not very good either) and my helmet was white, as there were no rules pertaining to it with NOA, the sanctioning organization I started with. When I started back again in 1968 after an 8 year layoff, and was racing with APBA then, the jackets most common were Gentex brand, which were the orange color we are all familiar with, and the rule was orange for the helmets. As previously mentioned by another poster, Bell, probably the most popular helmet at the time for serious racers, was hard to get in orange, so most had to have theirs painted.

A previous poster also makes probably the most important point with his post, stating that things to avoid have most always been this brilliant orange color, so we are attuned to that and will generally, without even thinking, try to stay away from something of that color, whether bouys, helmets, life jackets, etc.

There are other colors out there that in different lighting situations may be more visible under those conditions, but I don't think anyone can deny, that from an experience standpoint, and also the color orange meaning what it has for so many years, most everyone knows it means danger or stay away.

The less a driver has to think and make decisions about in moments of stress, the better for accident avoidance, and I am sure "Pickles" would agree.

[Blackhawkguy]

bouys used to be red

An answer to your question on why orange helmets and why do they match the bouys. They never used to match the bouys, I started racing in 1978, at that time hippity hops where the turn bouys of choice, they where red and pretty tough, also pretty cheep. As the years whent on hippity hops got expnesive and I believe they quit making them. Some smart people figured out you could use large colored trash bags blown up for turn bouys, they where inexpensive and cheap to replace. It kind of evolved from there, the colored bags where much bigger and easyer to see also. One other problem was some times yellow from a long distance is not easy to see and if the sun is behind them really not easy to see. So the helmets never matched the turn bouys, also you used a snell helmet period, no choice and it had to be a certain year. You could get orange helmets but they became more dificult to come by so people where forced to paint them. I was not around when the color was alowed to be yellow but thought that was not a smart move. As usual a rule evolves on it's own, some time the original intention is lost over time and you have to reset the rule to get it back to where it belongs. As the saying goes 5 dollar head-5 dollar helmet

[G Stillwill]

When I started racing the most common bouy was a inter tube with a peace basket on it and sometimes with a flag on the peace basket.

[Mike Beegle]

This is just a question but why do we have helmets that are the same color as our buoys or why do we have buoys the same color as our helmets??

No brainer avoid bouy and helmet.. Problem solved

I work construction why is my safety vest the same color as the traffic barrel.. duh dont hit either one

[ram95]

inner tubes

When I started racing the most common bouy was a inter tube with a peace basket on it and sometimes with a flag on the peace basket.

Good to read your post here George - I too clearly remember the inner-tube and upturned basket turn-buoys used by Westbrook Outboard Assn (Maine). You didn't want to smack one of them cause it would 'stave-in' the ceconite deck of your round-nose hydro.

I realize, that the comments here on HR are not known by the majority of racers and crews who are out there, because they never go on this site.... nor will they probably use the APBA social site either. Their ideas and opinions are no less important though. And.. their ideas and opinions need to be consulted before rules are written - that is my thinking. Rarely are there times when something comes up which is so important that the show must be stopped. This stupid helmet issue is an example. It's good that we are sharing ideas and opinions.

But, it's going to be interesting to see how the members of the Safety Committee and the BOD respond.... if they even acknowledge anything. In defense of both the Chairperson of the BOD and the Safety Comm.... both were presented with what they had to consider were 'the cold facts' .. truthful positions.... by 'knowledged' persons. Being the "Chair", each had to decide if they clearly knew more than what was being presented, or to accept what they were being told. In eithere case, the Chair must take the heat. However, my point here is to point out the fact that the "Chair' was influenced to take the direction they took. And, in my way of thinking, the "Chair" should have said.... we need to look at this AND, we need membership feedback along with APBA experience/statistical supporting data. Then, the "Chair" should have tabled the sucker.

Thanks for reading.

Alex

[Mike Beegle]

This is from the Snell site..

So now that have added and drilled holes for my head restraint Hans device and air system to my helmet it is no longer snell rated.. doubt rattle can paint jobs apply either


How about after-market accessories?

Each year we get a whole bunch of questions about different aftermarket helmet attachments. The Snell Standards and testing apply strictly to whole helmets and how they perform out of the box. Snell does not test, or qualify aftermarket helmet accessories. We only certify complete helmet structures. The addition, subtraction or modification of any part, component or structure integral to the performance of any Snell certified helmet may void completely, or in part the Foundation's ability to support claims of Snell certification for that helmet. This generally does not include cosmetic changes such as painting, unless it is performed contrary to the manufacturers' recommendations.

http://www.smf.org/helmetfaq#aAftermarketAcc

[bill van steenwyk]

I remember those also............

When I started racing the most common bouy was a inter tube with a peace basket on it and sometimes with a flag on the peace basket.

Carl Rylee, the mover and shaker behind the races at Fort Buhlow lake in the 60's and 70's used that type bouy on the course there several times. My wife Eileen was forced into one in with her Formula 350 with the Model 80 and cut her throttle hand quite badly on either the wood webbing or the nails holding the basket together, never knew which. She was quite upset, and Phil Howard's wife Jeanie, was trying to comfort her but quickly realized she was just mad at the person who forced her into the bouy and left her alone for awhile till she calmed down.