New APBA stock outboard class

[Raymond]

I like it and will support it however, please don’t limit driver experience in the class. As a young team, we think the challenge of learning to drive well, will be more exciting and rewarding if we are competing against the best. Not to say that non veteran drivers would not provide a challenge but…a self limiting rule could do just that; limit the success of the class.

[daveracerdsh]

Drivers

Raymond...scroll up the post list and you will see that we are not going to restrict it to new drivers....the intention is to put very limited restrictions on who can drive it..we are still working on that, but I promise you most people that want to run it can. Thank you for your intrest! Dave

[daveracerdsh]

More thoughts

A few more thoughts and tidbits I have been thinking about....we are going to look for a national sponsor for this class. Nothing like money involved to get people excited. Also...while this is going to be a class starting in the 2013 racing season..there is no reason why local clubs cannot start running it this year. Rick Montoya from RPM Marine has plenty of motors in stock, and I bet we can have the prop dimensions nailed down before the end of next month. Clubs can run it as a local class, like Seattle Outboard Association did in 2011 with the Novice C program. On another tangent...I may want to add one more person to the committee....somebody who would be willing to be in contact with all of the APBA listed clubs.....still working out the details. Let me know if anybody is interested in helping. David.

[stockc]

302ssh

I am a new racer, the guy you are looking to recruit into the flock which is necessary to keep this sport in existence The guy your commendable efforts are directed at. One who is reluctant to post here due to the likelihood of getting my ass chewed if I have a difference of opinion than another. This topic is worthy of subjecting myself to that potential. The premise here is to attract new racers to perpetuate the sport, a worthy endeavor no doubt. As one who spent the last two years contemplating entering this sport, I will give you all my perspective.

1. This class must be cost effective
2. It must provide the potential for the entrant to compete.
3. The equipment that one has to invest to run this class must have the
ability to some day run competitively in the conventional Yamato classes.
Minus say the generic prop.

In working out the details of this novel concept, I suggest working your way backwards from these premises.

On this forum today I can buy a virtually new Hemp CSH and a cart for $1600
A recent ad here also had a blueprinted by Dudley Malone 302 for $1800. I don't see have special hull specs yet to be determined and custom built, and having to purchase a factory stock Yamato as cost effective.

Honesty, I feel the Novice C platform is a more viable option to achieve the same worthy goal. That goal being to attract the average sized adults to stock outboard racing.

Dave...seriously glad to hear you have decided to not only read the posts that "like the idea" as you have presented it. That was truly a "pre pubesint" sorry Kyle.. i.e. pre pubescent comment. Furthermore...how would one know if the post was agreeable or not till one read it?...just sayin.

Regardless, I will be at the races doing the best I can. Some day hopefully
"competing" with the best.

[daveracerdsh]

Stock C

Thanx for the input....I am scanning all of the posts....when I start seeing negative comments I just move away from it. Like I have stated in previous posts...this will be a class in 2013. End of story. If I start focusing energy on the naysayers I am spending time on things I can't worry about. Maybe they have good ideas...who knows....but like I said...we need to look forward from this point on. I just do not want to see things like..."it will never work" blah blah blah. who cares what they say. It is sort of sad in a way that people think that way. We as an group have to stay positive on stock outboard racing.....it does have a future. And...to the person that sent me a pvt message saying they will do everything they can to help us make this the best thing to happen to Stock outboarding in the last 20 years...thank you so much. I am going to ask for your help in the very near future. Also...I am not looking for any personal gain from this project. None. I am simply trying to repay to the sport the great support and friendship I have got over my racing career....If I did not do this, somebody else would have stepped forward and taken the reins...I know that for a fact. David

[Bmwbob]

Competitive?

The possibility of a new class where there is very little chance of being a perpetual back marker sounds good to this still prospective convert from land based racing.
As someone said, "Stock" is a joke in nearly ANY form of motor racing. Setup and driving skills alone don't explain how the same Guy can both pull you out of the corners and also blow by you on the straights.
Any race I've seen so far has actually been a contest for second or third place at best, since the front boat or two just "checks out".
This includes watching the DVD's of the 2011 SO nats.
Entry cost could be an issue unless someone stole Harry Potter's wand and can make a new "spec" hydro appear for under $1500 or so.
Still, the prospect of this working out may cause me to remain on shore for another year while I try to round up some bargains on safety gear.
Go for it, folk with my best wishes!
Bob

[csh12M]

2MPH makes you look better.......

I would suggest limiting the "veteran" racers into this class, as we all know that "driving skill" is what wins a LOT of races.............newcomers do not necessarily have these skills yet and the "vets" would dominate the class right of the bat..........and discourage the new racer.........

maybe eliminate the "vet" that has raced for longer than 5yrs.........

sorry Dean but they could probably put you in the slowest boat and you would still beat the "newby" in the fastest boat..........

You are right, probably still beat the newbie, but 2MPH on half the field makes you look like a lot better driver than you really are Ray Jr. who posted here beat me straight up at Big Rapids when I gave him the "good" prop.

For sure I can see both sides of this argument, but a sealed 302 class I think may appeal to a wider audience than we think. I am sick of all the blueprinting and work necessary to compete. I want to race not wrench. The Rotax series in Go Karts is one of the best and fastest growing, it is a sealed motor class.

Just some random thoughts....

[forshey99]

What Dean said

.....For sure I can see both sides of this argument, but a sealed 302 class I think may appeal to a wider audience than we think. I am sick of all the blueprinting and work necessary to compete. I want to race not wrench. The Rotax series in Go Karts is one of the best and fastest growing, it is a sealed motor class.

For me, Dean's thoughts are spot-on. I NEVER had an interest in wrenching on engines....which is why I got into "Stock" Outboard 12 years ago. Little did I know at that time there was nothing stock about the motors.

Life has pulled me in several different directions over the last few years and I no longer have the time to invest in my 20ssh rig. No time to wrench=run at the back, which ultimately means no racing for me. A spec class with minimal investment of time and money, yet still offering good competition is exactly what I personally am looking for.

Nate

[Mike Beegle]

Yeah... you guys are all right.

Let's not bring in a new class designed to bring only new drivers. Let's not have this new class be standardized so it limits the confusion factor. Let's not offer Stock Outboard's most cost-effective, most reliable engine (oh yeah, and brand spankin' new too) to a new person who just getting started. Let's not make the barrier to entry into Stock Outboard virtually non-existent by making this as easy as going to a website and buying brand new equipment off the shelf.

You guys really have the right idea! Instead, let's sit out here on HydroRacer and whine and complain that we have too many classes with too many engine choices, not enough current racers, too many veterans signing off, and not enough new blood coming in. Let's wallow in our own loathing and self-pity that our sport we so dearly love is dying and can't figure out why.

Let's just sit and do nothing but revel in the glory days of the sport; when things were relatively inexpensive and easy; when a person could walk into a Mercury dealer and buy a racing engine and equipment right there on the spot.

Oh wait... This kinda sounds like what this new class is attempting to do.

I'm sure I'm not going to make a bunch of new friends here with this opinion, so I'm just going to say what's on my mind; both barrels; no holding back. You guys are a bunch of wet blankets, and you should be ashamed of yourselves. If you are not supporting every effort to revive this sport, then you are the very contingent that is killing it.

Your turn. Flame away.

That was well said.... I figured out why after posting a boat for sale why I dont surf this site any more... I have not been on Hydroracer much for a couple of years.. Way too much whining ... Good work with the new class..

[guedo499]

For me, Dean's thoughts are spot-on. I NEVER had an interest in wrenching on engines....which is why I got into "Stock" Outboard 12 years ago. Little did I know at that time there was nothing stock about the motors.

Life has pulled me in several different directions over the last few years and I no longer have the time to invest in my 20ssh rig. No time to wrench=run at the back, which ultimately means no racing for me. A spec class with minimal investment of time and money, yet still offering good competition is exactly what I personally am looking for.

Nate

Want a truly stock class? Look at UIM OSY-400. We don't have to re-create the wheel.

[daveracerdsh]

Confused

Two things:

1. Make sure you know what the Pro Commission is trying to do with UIM OSY here in the States - work together for the better of all.

2. Work out a financing plan either through commercial CC's (Just like going to a dentist for a big procedure - most don't have cash on hand, but go through a CC for one-time financing) OR private financing. I would be willing to finance a handful of setups (boat, paint, motor, prop, gear): 25% down, remaining due within two-years OAC and a fellow racer co-signing the new-racer's note as a "responsible, big-brother".
__________________
Guedo the Killer Pimp
Guedo...you honestly have me confused here....are you going back on your generous offer? As to the Similar UIM class...my comittee is well aware of it, and we are going hopefully make the rules and specs of new class very similar so new people can run both. Naysayers: I have been given good advice that I SHOULD read your posts...which I will now start doing. However, I am not going to waste time justifying the class. Finally...Mr Dingman: I have always considered you a friend..and your personal attacks on me have me scratching my head....am I not the person who volunteered my one free day at Wakefield last year to help you tear down and put back together your 44XS? Which by the way the most well respected person on the subject, Fred Hauenstein, advised you to do? I don't get it. See you on the race course dude.

[propnuts]

Novice C?

Since there currently is no one in our region (that I am aware of) who would qualify for this class, can we run Novice C in the mean time? I know you wanted Novice C to be 302SS, but they might be 2 seperate things for a while. I don't want to see us give up novice C, it was way too much fun, and I understand we even have a class rep in region 10 this year

[daveracerdsh]

Novice C

The new 302 SSH class will not start up until the 2013 season....until then heck ya we are going to be running Novice C..in fact I am going to the race directors meeting Saturday to try and get all of the race directors to put it on the sanction as a special event. David

[Team 12R]

my apology dave

Two things:

1. Make sure you know what the Pro Commission is trying to do with UIM OSY here in the States - work together for the better of all.

2. Work out a financing plan either through commercial CC's (Just like going to a dentist for a big procedure - most don't have cash on hand, but go through a CC for one-time financing) OR private financing. I would be willing to finance a handful of setups (boat, paint, motor, prop, gear): 25% down, remaining due within two-years OAC and a fellow racer co-signing the new-racer's note as a "responsible, big-brother".
__________________
Guedo the Killer Pimp
Guedo...you honestly have me confused here....are you going back on your generous offer? As to the Similar UIM class...my comittee is well aware of it, and we are going hopefully make the rules and specs of new class very similar so new people can run both. Naysayers: I have been given good advice that I SHOULD read your posts...which I will now start doing. However, I am not going to waste time justifying the class. Finally...Mr Dingman: I have always considered you a friend..and your personal attacks on me have me scratching my head....am I not the person who volunteered my one free day at Wakefield last year to help you tear down and put back together your 44XS? Which by the way the most well respected person on the subject, Fred Hauenstein, advised you to do? I don't get it. See you on the race course dude.

you are my friend dave. i hope nothing has changed. my frustrations are and have been the lack of communication of how we really want to improve our sport and what comes back to us from the national meetings.

"novice c" was to my understanding be nothing too difficult. a group of alike "C" size wheels were to be purchased like the "J" program. if you hadn't won a CSH race you could run "novice c". when you had a finite number of wins in "novice c" you couldn't race the class any longer. simple as that. no new equipment or money needed. easy... the next thing, bamm... you post "NEW APBA CLASS".. new boat, new motors, new, new, new. thats lots of money dave. lots of work. "novice c" was supposed to be an easy quick fix.

i'm really sorry if my emotions got the best of me dave. i'm glad we have guys like you who can afford to travel to national meetings. i was just hoping to see some changes that both effected me and could help class participation NOW.

i'm with tony. that was a good class. i hope we can continue the "novice c" we raced last year in our region.

[Yellowjacket]

This type of starter class is a good step in the right direction. The only downside is that this appears to me to be actually a “second step” kind of program. The reason I say that is that anyone who is considering this class is, most likely, already “hooked”, or it could help with retention since it provides a pretty level playing field.

If you think about it for a minute, the outlay to go racing in this class is still pretty significant. You need $3000 for the motor, figure 2,000 for a boat with all the hardware. Then add your safety equipment, helmet, cut suit and life jacket, another $1,000 or more, so now we are up to $6k, and we haven’t added in a boat cart, or a trailer, or.... You are probably looking easily somewhere between $8,000 to $9,000, and you haven’t even gotten near the water yet. And that assumes you have a vehicle that can pull a good sized trailer with your rig on it, if you don’t that’s something else you need to buy. Moreover, if decide you don’t enjoy it enough and want to get out of your rig you are going to take a bath because the market for resale of racing stuff is so small.

The bottom line is that in order to make that considerable outlay without financing, you have to be seriously committed to the sport. If you are already committed, and have a trailer and tow vehicle then you can add a boat, or maybe just the motor and run the class for a reasonable amount, but it’s hard for me to grasp this as a “starter” class that will attract new blood. I see it more as a class for folks who don’t want to wrench on motors and there is a good place for that, and it could help retention of existing racers and that’s a good thing.

The APBA desperately needs a class like GT Pro. The reason I say that is that a class like that is far lower cost of admission. For GT Pro, you are looking at a totally stock motor (and a fishing gearfoot) for less than $1k used. Probably a similar amount for a used small V hull boat, and then add safety gear. You can get a regular boat trailer that you can tow behind almost any car for $300. Now you probably have about than $3k in a rig and gear. Lastly, if you want to go buzzing around on a weekend in your local lake you can without worrying that a passing wakeboard boat is going to smash your boat with its wake. Remember that somebody who isn’t yet “hooked”, is looking for something that is fun, and has value other than as just a pure racing machine. There aren’t that many races that will allow you to run most summer weekends, so you’d like to have a boat that is a bit more of a dual purpose boat. I look at Europe and see how well their GT classes are doing, I think that points to a direction that would be a way to reinvigorate the sport.

Sorry for the long post, just some observations..…