New APBA stock outboard class

[daveracerdsh]

New Class

I put this post up last night after a long flight home from the APBA convention (all on my own dime mind you) knowing that there were going to be people (or racers) out there that do not like the idea. Well folks...NOTHING that we as a commission do will please everybody...but we are taking the bold step to look ahead instead of looking back....we are losing membership left and right, and at this point we have around 400 active racers in the country out of a population of around 320,000,000 souls. You guys that don't like the idea tell me what to do to get NEW people into the sport. I am only going to address the naysayers one time...and it is now. You are certainly welcome to your opinion, whether myself or others agree to it or not. However, without doing something to stimulate the sport, stock outboarding in APBA is going down the tubes within the next ten years. This class IS going to happen, so get used to it. Schedule killer? A new class with new racers in it a schedule killer? Really? Clubs will find the time, or make the time to make this work. In the beginning, we can combine it with another class until it has the legs to stand alone or something along those lines. SOA found the time this year to run it's Novice C program...it was a huge hit in my humble opinion. From this point forward, I am not going to read the posts of racers that do not like the idea..I don't have the time. The only posts I am going to read are those of racers that have ways and ideas of moving forward with things....like I said earlier, the class is now part of (or will be soon) the stock outboard catagory within APBA. The new website will have all of the information and "One stop shopping" for people to get started...and it will be heavily promoted. So...for those of you that do not like the new class....get elected as a commissioner, or come to the national meeting next year in Fort Worth Texas and come up with a better idea to help bring in new members to the sport, or make a move to eliminate class if you so desire..that is your right. Like i said earlier, from this point forward I am not going to discuss or respond to any posts that do not like the idea. Sorry. If you have constructive ideas on how to help make this a succsess, please post them here, send me an e mail at Daveracerdsh@aol.com, or call me at 425 246 4710. The final "specs" for the new class will be in APBA hands soon...and I would love ideas from people on how to make it a success. David (aka 5 US)

[Big Don]

I think this new class is a great idea. We have never had anything like this before and if we don’t try something different we are all going to be in trouble. What we hear all the time from current racers is the NEW guy can’t compete with the people that have been racing for years because they have rebuilt their engines 20 times to get them the way they want them. We hear the same thing once we have them hooked that how do I compete with these guys…

This is a great way to get them in, explain the thought behind this class, explain CSH to them and let their budget, competitiveness, amount of work they want to put in decide their direction. Also explain to them if you don’t have others in the class yet that they are going to be combined with another class until the class grows more.

BTW I don’t see this as just the NEW guys class. I think this gives a current racer who has a smaller racing budget or is lacking the time it takes to win a different class to move into so we don’t lose them. It gives them place to go and know he can be competitive and will not have to rebuild his engine 2 times a year, buy 50 props, etc. It could also free up his old class equipment if he would chose to only run the 302 class.

When a person is ready to move on if they want, he can start to tinker more and go to 20H or CSH or MOD with his current engine.

Before people pass judgment on the idea, cost, etc… wait until the format/rules are put forth. I think you might be surprised at the cost and what some current members are willing to do to make this as cost effective as we can. A group of some of our best leaders were put together to come up with the rules….stay tuned.

Bill quit complaining and get in the garage, I think I saw Dave Anderson give Dewald a check for more D props…BTW…There was a motion for D Height, Dave Anderson I believe was the only one that voted for it.

Hunter, contact Dean Sutherland, Mike Mackey or Bill Pavlick about how to set up a Drivers School for attracting new members. They have done quite a few and could help you with how to do it. They will let you know how their clubs make it attractive. After you talk to them at your next club meeting let them know what you found out and that at one of your club races you guys should try it. I believe the guys I mentioned above that their clubs also have the loaner rigs like you mention.

[blueskyracer]

dean,
even if i thought this idea was sound AND I DON'T please tell me how buying a very expensive NEW motor and prop is a good way to get new blood? i traded a snap-on toolbox to daren goehring for my first rig. i had to borrow a life jacket and helmet my first race. if you look at the classifieds you will see a proven used motor is a far better deal.

hunter's loaner A/J rig idea is a far better plan. i just saw a kid last week asking us on this site if some old hydro he has would fit in a class and he wanted to race. that's the person (get him.. fast). let him use that loaner boat a few races and he will be hooked. as far as a schedule killer, you would have to walk in our shoes. i'm not trying to start a fight just make you aware. races in our region usually put the loud classes toward the end of the schedule. (750, 850, 250 pro & 350 pro). you have a blow day on saturday and guess who gets the short end of the deal or a 1-heat format. yepp... puts a bad taste in your mouth when you've watched that little 15 hemp boat race j hydro, k-pro, axs hydro, A hydro and the yamato run 20, osy, CSH and CMOD. now we are talking another yamato class with unique props and separate inspection process?

i have a dog in the "D" class fight. i've watched the coolest motor to be introduced to the apba in years be treated like the "red-headed stepchild". i'm actually trying to help out my class and promote a motor that will be better than mine. 750 hyrdo is all but dead in our region. one decision could improve numbers right now. let's fix what we have rather than muddy the water and make things worse. we have great new driver classes. lots of them.

Bill I am with you.. That is exactly what happened the last time I raced APBA...Yes everyone needs new racers but not at the expense of the older ones that run the bigger classes..The programs should be fair to all classes EQUALLY!!! If there is only 450 racers than you need to address everyone fairly Dave...As for 750 or DSH that should be a new post of its own..

[Big Don]

Bill I am with you.. That is exactly what happened the last time I raced APBA...Yes everyone needs new racers but not at the expense of the older ones that run the bigger classes..The programs should be fair to all classes EQUALLY!!! If there is only 450 racers than you need to address everyone fairly Dave...As for 750 or DSH that should be a new post of its own..

So why not go to the clubs and suggest they combine two of the 3 boat classes so now there is 2 more heats and the program is the same length.

[Team 12R]

nice dave.. go hide

thank you for going to the national meeting on your own dime. glad you are able to do that. as an "ELECTED" commissioner do you think you have a responsibility to represent the questions and concerns of those who "ELECTED" you? run and hide with the "i'm not going to discuss or respond" on this site to those who don't like the way the stock "ELECTED" commission has represented the members.

btw: how can the guy who didn't attend the national meeting find the items that were discussed as the NEW apba website was not informative at all about happenings. hr.net remains the best public forum for stock outboard.

i will commend the idea of "novice C" in region 10 last year. having that class a couple races a year is a good thing. that is what you were to propose to the stock commission. new sealed motors and region props in a regular class at all races... not what you told us...

[BP125V]

it is fair

Bill I am with you.. That is exactly what happened the last time I raced APBA...Yes everyone needs new racers but not at the expense of the older ones that run the bigger classes..The programs should be fair to all classes EQUALLY!!! If there is only 450 racers than you need to address everyone fairly Dave...As for 750 or DSH that should be a new post of its own..

Just because a class exists does not mean that a local club HAS to run it. The clubs need to run what makes sense for their membership, if this new class does not fit or make sense for your area - then don't bother. But please don't try to kill it for those who want to try it.

Thanks to Dave and the rest of the group who are working on this project, you have Marine Racing Club's full support.

[pearson95m]

This kinda sounds like a “J” class for adults. A class that new drivers can learn and perfect there driving skills before moving on to more established class. If that is the case, then it sounds pretty good to me. Especially if you can take the same racing equipment and move onto those more established classes. Or perhaps those “other” classes would simply die off and this would eventually become the norm for all of stock outboard…. again.

I would like to add a couple suggestions for the committee setting up the rules.
1.) Add a runabout class as well. If the idea is to inject new growth, lets not limit a potential driver to one style of boat. Obviously I’m speaking from a marathoner’s point of view, but we have many of the same issues with new drivers; “what class should I invest in?”. This would be a great class to point them too.
2.) Keep the class safe. Since the objective is to create an even playing field, then keeping safety a priority shouldn’t be an issue
3.) Ergonomics – Remember that we all come in many different shapes and sizes. Having rules that make it difficult for certain body types to participate in the class would be counterproductive.

Overall, I like the idea of creating a more even playing field and reducing the overall cost to the driver. Maybe the initial cost might hurt, but the cost to “keep up with the Jones (pater’s, bahl’s, rosses, allens…ect)” I can see being much less.

[csh12M]

Cmon Bill....

Bill are you really serious?

You mentioned that Novice C in your area was a good class. Won't this replace your novice C class, but on a National level.

I believe this class can take off. A Stock Yamoto will be $3,000 a used CSH $1,500 plus the cost of a Stock prop. This is going to be the cheapest anyone can compete within Stock Outboard. The bonus is they will "really" be able to compete. It will allow the "hobby" racer to be able to race a few weekends a year and not be resigned to finishing last! If this class it introduced the way I think it will be, I think MHRA will have 4-6 within a year.

Thanks,
Dean

[csh12M]

Are we limiting it to just Novice Racers?

Dave,

What is the target for the new class? Obviously it is a perfect fit for new racers. However, my opinion would be don't limit it to only newbies or novice. I think this could appeal to a larger audience. Heck, it really appeals to me!

What do other people think? Let anyone who wants to race it, or is it for rookies only?

Thanks,
Dean
12M

[kampkurz]

It is fair, and it's a good idea!

This new class may not be for everybody. Actually, it was proposed, mainly, as I see it...to attract new drivers to clubs that are ineterested in growing participation at the events that they run.
I think it is very fair...to new drivers. Something that we want to see at our races. I for one, will do whatever it will take to help this new class be a success.
Heck, I saw Dean Sutherland chiming in on a positive note,(You know...'class reduction' Dean Sutherland.)
It is not easy for new racers to get into this sport and have any chance of running near the front, not with out spending a ton of money, and then it still is not easy, as it can be difficult, without years of experience to find the best engine 'Guy', the best props, and such.
I can remeber wanting to get into the sport back in the eighties. I was warned against trying certain calsses, as the competition was dominated by folks that had generations of experience, and there was "No way you'll ever run with those guys." I can tell you, it was a little overwhelming to hear and I stayed away for many years. I later joined APBA in 2008 and began running marathon races. I figured that the best stuff doesn't always win in marathon... a lot of the time it's 'You' that makes the difference.
I think this new class allows for that same type of competition, and I hope it takes off.
Dave, you mentioned that hull design is being discussed, I would like to hear about it, if I can, as you know more. If you come up with I design that I could help out with, maybe by building one or more, I would like to hear about it.
I am almost certain that there is a runabout class as well. This set up on a runabout could work at Top'O I know.
I like the idea of it working for a wider group... one way may be to not make the class 'too light' ,making it do-able for the big guys...you know, like Josh Pearson. Hee Hee.
While the intention was to make it good for newbies, I don't think that veterans should be dis-allowed, I'm surely not a veteran, but I would like to be able to try it.
Also, I would love to see the Lemans start utilized. It is a ton of fun, everyone would have the same prop, so no big advantage at the start. This sounds like fun, to me.

[Racerkyle20]

i really don't see how a class like that can even get off the ground in our region. i'll even be willing to bet dave a case of his fruity girly wine coolers this idea never comes to fruition here.

I am tired of mindless chatter from members who do nothing but sit behind a keyboard and type/ *****! Get a clue. Dave is trying to help this sport and if you bothered to talk to Dave....novice c was suppose to be a starter to a spec true stock class. This was the IDEA from the beginning.

Finally, and I'm done, region 10 is different from other clubs in that we run everything anyone brings. Stock, mod, pro, j. It's a pain in the ass to make a schedule because we have a good problem with lots of folks on our region wanting to race. If u don't like it, find a race site, only invite classes you want to run and see how much money u lose by not Inviting every possible class you can.

[thepiranhabros]

Right!

I think this new class is a great idea. We have never had anything like this before and if we don’t try something different we are all going to be in trouble. What we hear all the time from current racers is the NEW guy can’t compete with the people that have been racing for years because they have rebuilt their engines 20 times to get them the way they want them. We hear the same thing once we have them hooked that how do I compete with these guys…

This is a great way to get them in, explain the thought behind this class, explain CSH to them and let their budget, competitiveness, amount of work they want to put in decide their direction. Also explain to them if you don’t have others in the class yet that they are going to be combined with another class until the class grows more.

BTW I don’t see this as just the NEW guys class. I think this gives a current racer who has a smaller racing budget or is lacking the time it takes to win a different class to move into so we don’t lose them. It gives them place to go and know he can be competitive and will not have to rebuild his engine 2 times a year, buy 50 props, etc. It could also free up his old class equipment if he would chose to only run the 302 class.

When a person is ready to move on if they want, he can start to tinker more and go to 20H or CSH or MOD with his current engine.

Before people pass judgment on the idea, cost, etc… wait until the format/rules are put forth. I think you might be surprised at the cost and what some current members are willing to do to make this as cost effective as we can. A group of some of our best leaders were put together to come up with the rules….stay tuned.

Bill quit complaining and get in the garage, I think I saw Dave Anderson give Dewald a check for more D props…BTW…There was a motion for D Height, Dave Anderson I believe was the only one that voted for it.

Hunter, contact Dean Sutherland, Mike Mackey or Bill Pavlick about how to set up a Drivers School for attracting new members. They have done quite a few and could help you with how to do it. They will let you know how their clubs make it attractive. After you talk to them at your next club meeting let them know what you found out and that at one of your club races you guys should try it. I believe the guys I mentioned above that their clubs also have the loaner rigs like you mention.

My God, Don! This makes perfect sense. Well said.

Keep this up, and you may have to start agreeing with yourself!

[MGallagher]

Thanks to Dave and the members who were pro-active and getting this done.

[Team 12R]

yes dean, really

Bill are you really serious?

You mentioned that Novice C in your area was a good class. Won't this replace your novice C class, but on a National level.

I believe this class can take off. A Stock Yamoto will be $3,000 a used CSH $1,500 plus the cost of a Stock prop. This is going to be the cheapest anyone can compete within Stock Outboard. The bonus is they will "really" be able to compete. It will allow the "hobby" racer to be able to race a few weekends a year and not be resigned to finishing last! If this class it introduced the way I think it will be, I think MHRA will have 4-6 within a year.

Thanks,
Dean

dean,

a new guy can buy a complete rig for 3000 buck in our region with a prop or 2 that get he/she started. a good yamato with a milled head and a profiled foot all day for 2000/2500 bucks. this new idea is 3000 for a motor, 2000 boat (details coming we are told about boats). seems the math here in the northwest is a little different then in michigan.

"novice C" was at 1 race last year. same boat, motor, and prop as the regular CSH class. the catch is you could not run if you have won CSH in the past. now that was understandable... this new idea is 5000 bucks before safety gear, memberships and entry fees.

i'm really not trying to be a naysayer here. i'm just trying to be realistic. i quickly realized as much as anyone racing CSH/20SSH was going to be a really tough nut to crack for a guy on a very limited budget. after jumping the gun just to feel clean water (and getting blown away by the back stretch) my last few races i decided to change my own racing future. i bought a really good D outfit for less that 6000 bucks. holy crap... i actually won a race my first year in D. we have a lot of C racers out there that i'm sure would love to race something faster or BE MORE COMPETITIVE. DSH is the answer however not many folks are willing to make that move to buy a state of the art NEW motor that is only going to be legal in 1 class (2 if you count FE).

we are scratching our heads how to sustain membership and have the answer already in place. D stock is not the complete answer but it fills the need for the racer like my personal example. it's faster, safer (other drivers seem to have a better awareness) and smoother than any C class in my opinion. let's use what we have first. i'm sick of hearing about guys not providing the data needed for the mod commission 4 years ago. we create a class and a new set of rules in one week but can't straighten out something already in place. thats all..

[Big Don]

1.) Add a runabout class as well. .

Josh, it was proposed as both a Hydro & Runabout.