J and AX Categories

[Howie Nichols]

Billy & George,
I know that each of you has stepped up many times to fill a class be it AX or A, I for one appreciate that and in multiple cases it allowed Becky to race the class that she loves. This was why we also bought a 2nd rig to have in the trailer for her 67, yes 67 year old grandfather to race.

Dad has gone out to fill the class but enjoys running so much that he still runs it when enough show up, he doesn't do this to win (he has yet to record an overall AXR win) but he does it to help the newer and younger kids learn how to race side by side with others, he did this to Becky although she would check out very quickly against poor old Papa, he did it with Jack Cavanaugh, Nevin, many others just as George did with Becky in AXH. I remember her goal was to "beat George" as I have told him. He would purposely back off, run in her wake or get right next to her sponson to help her go thru the turns and LEARN.

Thank you to all you old farts for helping teach our kids to be better drivers, I hope you stick around so these kids can grow up beating on you in each corner!

Proud AX Dad and Son

[Racerkyle20]

I'm sure my mother would have wanted me to run AX

I go back and forth on this position. Age limit? no age limit? It does seem silly at this point in APBA's life that we would deny anyone the ability to race really almost any class. We don't have the numbers we used to. If you want to race against 3 boats you go for it. AX is the largest growing class in ALL OF APBA. Does it have an odd place category wise? yes. Do people in region 10 get tired of watching J, AX, A, K-pro repeat with runabouts run all day? Probably. Does it help the sport to get as many entries as possible no matter how we do it? yes.

I can tell you this, my mother would have loved for me to race AX. Instead my option at 14 (i was a little big for any J class anymore) was ASH, K-pro, and eventually OSY. Who did i get to race against at nationals when I was 14? JMK, Andy Anderson, Billy Allen, Betu Speding, Spencer Love, etc. It was brutel. Those guys were out to win and win at all costs. And my dumb*** was trying to get on the inside....Let's just say i got wet.

Look I'm all for defining the class better and how to promote it, but don't screw with a good thing. Especially if it sells motors....

[csh12M]

Quick Point

I do not have a strong opinion on this topic, but I am tired of hearing the AX classes are the "fastest growing classes"....how do we define growth? If ASH is down 35 members and AX is up 35 members than we have not grown. All we have done is shuffle 30 members from one class to another. We have to figure out what "New Name" members want in a class. AX is not pulling any more or less "New Name" racers into the sport than any other class.

The 2011 numbers are out and once again we are down racers. We have slowed decline, but we are still going the wrong way.

[Team 12R]

Wrong

I do not have a strong opinion on this topic, but I am tired of hearing the AX classes are the "fastest growing classes"....how do we define growth? If ASH is down 35 members and AX is up 35 members than we have not grown. All we have done is shuffle 30 members from one class to another. We have to figure out what "New Name" members want in a class. AX is not pulling any more or less "New Name" racers into the sport than any other class.

The 2011 numbers are out and once again we are down racers. We have slowed decline, but we are still going the wrong way.

i respectfully disagree with your statement.

[ricochet112]

i respectfully disagree with your statement.

What is APBA's membership count and category breakdown for the last 5 and 10 years?

[Ron Hill]

Another Point of View

I do not have a strong opinion on this topic, but I am tired of hearing the AX classes are the "fastest growing classes"....how do we define growth? If ASH is down 35 members and AX is up 35 members than we have not grown. All we have done is shuffle 30 members from one class to another. We have to figure out what "New Name" members want in a class. AX is not pulling any more or less "New Name" racers into the sport than any other class.

The 2011 numbers are out and once again we are down racers. We have slowed decline, but we are still going the wrong way.

Over the years, I've seen many racers come and go. I BELIEVE that many have quit because of injuries or fear of injuries. AXS has a speed range that, in my opinion, seems to be "Comfortable" for many.

If people have switched from A Hydro to AXS Hydro, maybe there a is good reason for the switch. Maybe, being able to buy a new motor, with a cool cowling, pride of ownership, has something to do with it too.

Every OMC 15A that I have sold in Region 12, has had a polished gearcase, and, if not new from Sea_Way Marine cowling, a nice cowling.

Watching the smiles on AXS driver's faces, young and old at Thanksgiving, gives me confidence, that OLD people should continue racing AXS.

[dholt]

For those than mentioned it on this post, here are the updated participation totals dating back to 1997.

These numbers represent boats that raced in each class...not individual members. I do not have the stats on actual numbers of members.

Regardless, the amount of boats/entries that hit the water is what counts...and as you can see...the numbers are going the wrong direction the past couple years.

[Team 12R]

no arguing the numbers

membership and participation are down. doesn't take a report to know that fact. just look at the economy. duuhhh...

the AX class works on several different levels. a boat can be run by a couple different drivers in 2 different classes with just a quick mod. like kyle stated above that the AX class is perfect for the J racer that isn't ready to jump into A class or 20. that driver who became too old to race J class didn't have to spend a fortune to keep racing. that merc 15 has help the apba big time.

new members to our sport is what we would like to see. can't argue that fact but the AX class brings sustainability to stock outboard racing. in our region we have a new racer in his sixties that just started a couple years ago. he loves the AX class. guido has a new racer who is 26 years old that is going to race this year in AX. we would be fools to change anything with the J class or the AX classes. IT WORKS....

[ricochet112]

Yes, entries pay the bills...but with the same boat and driver running multiple classes can muddy the numbers on new bodies gained and retained. Only 25SSR, DSH and 20SSH showed even a modest increase from 1997 to 2011.

One thing has concerned me when I hear " CSH is our largest class with 115 racers in 2011", is that only 61 of those made more than 5 races, this kind of participation and numbers isn't going to cut it for growth.

I just watched the Lucas Drag Hydro Finals...4 boats in Top Fuel...

APBA went how many years without a stepping stone for J to A...just sayin...

Right now we need every member and every entry we can get, any changes right now will only hurt more than help. For the long run solution we will never grow if we don't have full 12 boat fields with eliminations where a sponsor will find marketable value. The inmates ruling the asylum isn't cutting it.

When I was race director of Cullaby Lake the X class came to be, and CORA always gave a discounted entry to J drivers, since there was no age limit for the X class I made the entry discount based on age alone and not the class. IMO if X is going to stay in the J category we must tweak the point system so an adult with years of experience cant win high points against a true Junior driver or a rookie of adult age.

For those than mentioned it on this post, here are the updated participation totals dating back to 1997.

These numbers represent boats that raced in each class...not individual members. I do not have the stats on actual numbers of members.

Regardless, the amount of boats/entries that hit the water is what counts...and as you can see...the numbers are going the wrong direction the past couple years.

[Shep]

Change the opening statement in the J rule book from this

The AXH and AXR classes are developed so that new drivers and young JR and JH drivers can gain
experience to better prepare them for the larger and faster classes.

to this

The AXH and AXR classes have been developed so that drivers, who meet the minimum age, can gain experience to further their development and graduate to the larger faster classes. There is no age limit.


and be done with it.
I already submitted it to the committee.

[swheeler]

Change the opening statement in the J rule book from this

The AXH and AXR classes are developed so that new drivers and young JR and JH drivers can gain
experience to better prepare them for the larger and faster classes.

to this

The AXH and AXR classes have been developed so that drivers, who meet the minimum age, can gain experience to further their development and graduate to the larger faster classes. There is no age limit.


and be done with it.
I already submitted it to the committee.

Sounds good to me!

[Matt Dagostino]

Rule Book!!

Change the opening statement in the J rule book from this

The AXH and AXR classes are developed so that new drivers and young JR and JH drivers can gain
experience to better prepare them for the larger and faster classes.

to this

The AXH and AXR classes have been developed so that drivers, who meet the minimum age, can gain experience to further their development and graduate to the larger faster classes. There is no age limit.


and be done with it.
I already submitted it to the committee.

Fred was 'in bounds' to point out the inaccuracy in the rule book with respect to the AXS Mission Statement. Changing the language as Shep suggests keeps our rulebook in line with what APBA's intent for the class is!!

Without a accurate and up to date Rulebook we would be little more than a 'wildcat' organization!!

[ram95]

Put AX into Stock Outboard

How's about we just simplify one point of confusion. Get AX the heck out of J category.

The Merc 15 has added a new dimension to AX. I am still very impressed with how well the OMC15's run. The fact that both engines, when properly cared for, can look brand new helps. The fact that they both use the same gearfoot really helps. The fact that fathers/mothers/sons can build their own boats, test their very own props helps get the ball rolling.

And, being able to get out there on the racecourse against some old-folks who haven't gained too-much girth.... and pass their old-fart azzz on the straight or in a corner AND win!!!!! You tell me that that doesn't make a kid feel good??

Tell me though... what is it that makes KPRO attractive. How might we capitalize on that in SO.??

[D_Allen_III]

Dang, DSR numbers increased by 366% from 2010 to 2011.

ram95, the J Category will not let the AX class go. To quote a committee member I asked about that a few years ago, "Why? So the Stock category can micro-manage it and screw it up?"

I didn't have a rebuttal to that.

[bill boyes]

Remember, Not long ago the SORC did not want the Merc and asked the J Committee to take over the AX class. Now that the AX class is a success some want to take the class back into the SORC and make changes.
Do they want to appoint a parity Committee for the AX Class? Topic would be age and Restrictor plates for a start. And anything else that they cannot agree on. I am being petty I know just that i'am becoming a curmudgeon and very tried of all the BS concerning the J Category. Leave it alone it is in good hands. Move on to something that needs correcting.
The SORC/Mod Commission has the Tohatsu and Sidewinder to occupy their time. Make use of it.