J and AX Categories

[fhafer]

Where is it going....

Paul, what is the INTENT of AX? It's not a sub category of A......it's a transition to A.

I'm not taking anything away from George or any other ADULT that competes in AX.....they just shouldn't be there.

I'm using APBA's words....those are direct quotes.

I say again.....WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF THE A CLASS?!

[Shep]

Obviously your upset about the young man not getting the 1-e number.

You seem to be confusing promotional wording and the rule book. You can rant all you want on this site but you really need to get in touch with the J committee if you want to do something about it. Better still go to the committee meeting in Chicago this year. Re write the specific rule and lobby to get it passed. Lobby to get the promo wording changed.

We all had the chance to read the rules before the season started. To complain about the outcome after the fact makes no sense to me. The young man ran more races and scored less points Plain and simple. George beat my kid too. Personally I think losing teaches the kids as much if not more than winning does.

Kris Shepard
Dad of 15 yr old Michael Shepard 46v

[guedo499]

I'm putting together an AXH, with the help of others, to race in 2012. See you in the first turn!

Ok, ok, just kidding, but I am putting together a ride for a 25 year old newbie. In this situation, AX is the proper place to learn and have fun racing, especially at the local level.

[thepiranhabros]

Personally I think losing teaches the kids as much if not more than winning does.

Kris Shepard
Dad of 15 yr old Michael Shepard 46v

Well said, Shep.

[Ron Hill]

Region 12, SoCal, out There By Japan

When Marlee Hil started racing about five years ago, we had three A Hydros. Two "Die Hards" (Tammy Dawe and Jeff Conant). They were hard pressed to get three boats on the water, let alone four boats for the NATIONALS POINTS that are so important.

At our Thanksgiving 2011 race, there were 12 A Hydros, and 8 AXS Hydros.

AXS lets people get more time of the water. Let's say you buy an new A Hydro, motor, cut suit, jacket and helmet. You drive six hours to race.....I don't care what your age is, four heats a day are better than 2. To go from AXS to A jyou ust need a restrictor plate change, maybe lead, but you don't need a second motor or a second boat....Just go "RACE".

I just counted AXS had 70 wet boats in 2011. A Hydro had 84. I'm not sure what the ORIGINAL GOAL of this class was, but it has helped grow Region 12 racing and I for one, am glad to see adults driving in this class. We had 2 or 3 new drivers at Parker in AXS.

I have been reading some 1946 Boat Race programs, every class had two Divisions. Pro and AMS...Pros raced for money. AMS raced for fun. I'd like to see a Pro-Am.

[Matt Dagostino]

Fred

Like i said.............the waters have been muddied over the past ten years with the AX Classes. Maybe we do need to change the 'mission statement' of the AX classes to reflect where we are now in 2012!!
However it is hard to argue with success!!............look at what happened in DMR when the weight limit was removed!! Lol. Guess that's another thread.

Point is let's not go backwards, let's keep moving in the positive direction!!

Oh, and if Guigo get's in AXSH i will kick Val to the curb and take you on my man!!

Later

[PAUL PRICE]

Fred 1-E is given to highest point total in our region not in any given class , by rights Austin was 1-E this season but we never changed his #,ask Matt he's a man of numbers, if you look at the A class in our region we don't have enough boats , and up to 1 year ago we barely had enough ax's,if you run AX and A you will find out they're the same only difference is the ax is going too fast for a kid , your effort should be trying to slow down the ax class. When I started racing at the age of 9 I ran a 60 merc J mid 30's you were flying, then went to ash with a evinrude running in the 50's,back then you put your big boy pants on and raced.......

[bill van steenwyk]

As stated by a previous poster..............

I DON'T HAVE A DOG IN THIS FIGHT..........

BUT...............

I do understand how someone might be upset if what is evidently important to a competitor(High Point Award) would be won by an experienced driver in what evidently was understood by the OP to be a "beginners class".

We had a similar situation (or thought we might) in the PRO Category in the mid-70's, when the Yamato 80 was legalized for the Formula 350 class, what later became the "NOVICE" class for PRO. The rules plainly stated from the "git-go" that the class was for either beginning drivers who had never raced previously or for drivers who had once raced but had not competed for five years in any sanction competition.

The purpose was to attract not only new drivers, but drivers who for one reason or another, cost, speed, etc., had left the PRO Category, or any other structure in boat racing, back in to the sport. The rule was worded so that a driver could only compete for a period of five years, and then had to go on to another class in the PRO Category, or if not in PRO to another category. The reasoning behind the rule was to eliminate a group of "Professional" Formula 350 drivers who because of either experience, money, or other reasons, would come to dominate the class and consequently take the pleasure and excitement of winning away from the folks the class was designed to attract, the NEW boat racer, or one who had come back after the five year off period.
Hindsight being 20/20, for the purpose in mind at the time, the rule might have been tightened even further, as there were several very experienced Stock drivers who competed against our Novices, and were somewhat disruptive to the original intent of the class.

As mentioned ,I do not have a dog in this fight, and have no personal opinion (if it even mattered) about the situation, BUT it is very difficult to put the Genie back in the bottle unless you specifically have a rule, NOW IN EXISTENCE, that prohibits any category of drivers, especially because of age. Subject to legal interpretation, you might even find yourself in an age discrimination situation if someone got their nose out of joint enough.

In addition if the rule were changed now, it possibly could have "unintended consequences", because as Ron Hill pointed out previously, the class seems to have flourished in California, and they certainly need all the help there that can be secured insofar as boat racer numbers. Put an arbitrary lowered age limit on the class, and in certain regions, it could spell serious problems, where none are needed or wanted.

As previously stated, I understand the OP's concerns, and as someone else said, there is chance for redress by attending the meeting and petitioning the proper authority. I have known Buddy Tennell for 20+ years, and he is one of the most fair minded individuals you will ever meet. I am sure in addition he has the best interest of these classes that he is the Chairman of at heart. It would be up to the petitioner to prove that, with apparently no age limit at present, that is to the detriment of the class. If they have shown growth under the present rule structure, that might be difficult.

[fhafer]

It's too bad you can't or won't answer the question:

What is AX for?

What is A for?

Experienced racers don't belong in AX...and that's not from promotional literature, that's from the rule book. Look it up.

[mercguy]

It's too bad you can't or won't answer the question:

What is AX for?

What is A for?

Experienced racers don't belong in AX...and that's not from promotional literature, that's from the rule book. Look it up.

so, tell me this..........what if a NEW driver that is older than 16 (hell, I have seen NEW 60+ yr old drivers) wants to start out in racing................AX is perfect for that, as obviously he/she is not eligable for J and putting that person into A or such is not the best idea............

PS: if your kid is racing just for points THAT is the problem...........BTW, that added "experience" from an "older experienced" driver benefits all drivers of the particular class.............TESTING and HARDWORK is what wins races...........NOT AGE!!!!!!!

****, I might just take and AX ride this coming season..............

[mercguy]

Like i said.............the waters have been muddied over the past ten years with the AX Classes. Maybe we do need to change the 'mission statement' of the AX classes to reflect where we are now in 2012!!
However it is hard to argue with success!!............look at what happened in DMR when the weight limit was removed!! Lol. Guess that's another thread.

Point is let's not go backwards, let's keep moving in the positive direction!!



Later

Matt says "Oh, and if Guigo get's in AXSH i will kick Val to the curb and take you on my man!!"

............I gotta see that!!!!! Is this still a "chip" from Whitney Point several years ago??? ........just kiddin........

[Ron Hill]

Change The Literature

It's too bad you can't or won't answer the question:

What is AX for?

What is A for?

Experienced racers don't belong in AX...and that's not from promotional literature, that's from the rule book. Look it up.

Some people, don't want to go a hundred miles per hour. AXS helps club pay their bills.

AX is for anyone old enough to race it!!

A Hydro is for people that want to go faster than AXS.

My best years of racing were when I had an A-B Sid Craft. I raced my 30-H is C Sock Hydro, B Outboard Hydro (Cross flows could step down) and C Outboard Hydro. I got six heats of racing for three entry fees, each day of racing.

I don't know if I won or not n those days. We just "RACED". Ted May would run his 20-H in B and C Outboard Hydro, guys stepped up...I was a World Champion, I was a Factory Driver, I was a National Champion....Maybe, I shouldn't have been racing with Jimbo McConnell, Fred Hauenstein, Ted May, Dave Nichols, Mel Spencer, Marcel Belleville......

I never won a hydro high point championships, but I "RACED" about 10-15 club races a year.

As NBRA says, "The race last three laps, friendships last forever".

[bill boyes]

Fred, Take your compliant to the "J" Committee. It does no good voicing your complaint on any forum. Just sounds to us all this is a personal issue. We can make an age rule only to ask our-selves 5 years from now "Why Did we do this"?? It just could be labeled the Billy Simmons rule and you and your son may have moved on to other classes. However. The local clubs who have issues with a lack of entries are trying their hardest just to beak even. What is your problem when 3 AX's show up at a event have traveled many miles/spent limited household funds to attend and cannot race due to lack of entries. What is your problem when a few older "A" racers help these people get on the water!!!
The APBA 'A" class is frankly is a CSH with lighter drivers etc. Can be pretty rough at times. So what is really wrong with with an older person who is not comfortable In "A" and running AX?
Seems We are asked annually to make rule changes to the "J" Category by a select few who have a personal agenda. I am not buying into your complaint. However, I am just one of the Committee.

[Bunker hill]

Thanks, Bill!
AX is alive and doing well. Marlee is now 17 and has been racing AXH for 3 years, we are now running well and would love to race against anyone. Racing is about sportsmanship, cameraderie and family! none of these virtues has an age limit! To make any changes now would negatively affect 70 racers, or more, who have invested a lot of time and effort to enjoy a great class.

[fhafer]

AX is a Junior Class.

I addressed the "new driver" situation in an earler post. You must have missed it or more likely ignored it.

AX is for kids or new drivers; that's the intent. That is why it is part of J and not it's own class.

Slowing AX down is a different topic, so start your own thread.

A sixty year old man with forty over years experience beating kids in points by racing fewer heats is making my point. I'm sorry that this is lost to you....seriously.

AX is clearly intended to be a transitional grouping for kids and new drivers. If an experienced driver feels the need to race in the arena then that is sad.

ASH is too fast, but AXSH is just right?! Now that's some funny stuff right there!

Any experience is good? Then let the J kids run their boats in ASH too. After all, it's in the name of gaining experience! Get rid of AX all together.

No, kids should be in the Junior Class, not experienced drivers. Race in ASH/ASR; if that class too fast then keep it on the trailer.

I'm not addressing people making a full field and you know it. That's just a non sequitur....but thanks for the laugh!

Yes, I will bring it up for a rule change, because you want to take advantage of a loophole and circumvent the intent of the Junior Class. You said it yourself.

R/
Fred