Digital start clocks...

[hydroid]

we've used digital in Region 4 for years - decades even. I think the digit panels are about 3' x 5'. Has a remote control, pick 2 min or 3 min gun. Maybe even 5 min - I forget. It is black background with 50 watt (I think) incandescent spots. Panels are separate, assembled on an aluminum base mount. We have 100' cables to run to the generator to save the scoring crew from the constant gen drone. 150' would be better :-) It's a Honda gen, do not a cheap gen set - they are wicked noisy.

I believe a move is afoot in Reg 4 to go new digital with LED lamps.

10-4, this is good. If going w LED, due to the low power draw, do not require generator as with incandescent; a 12v will do. We are also using generator now for analog 6' clock, noise is an issue for judges over 5hrs, and depending on wind direction, fumes are potent.

Thx

[Andrew 4CE]

the incadesant bulb clocks could now be converted to 40w household equivalent LED bulbs at about 9w available everywhere... This might actually be the best way to go because on site repairs would be a snap. Also there is no issue with view angle on the bulbs because they have built in diffusers. We have some installed in our house and they work great.

[Dave M]

One BIG Suggestion

The IOA group has been working on a digital clock for a few years, and a few upgrades and it seems to work now. It is easy to see, and you can figure out if it is a 6 or an 8 once you wrap the turn. The younger eyes can probably see it clearly from far away.

One problem I have had with ALL digital clocks I have run on, in any of the organizations, is picking out the clock on the bank. I would like to see a very large standard color tarp as the backdrop. Perhaps Orange, or some real contrasting color to all the boat trailers and background. It needs to be something easy to pick up in a small glance. I should not be trying to find the clock while milling, which is perhaps the most dangerous time in a boat race for a collision. I should find it in a glance. Now reading it is up to each individual. But I see way to many times that the background view from the race course is trailers, or cars or trees, and there is nothing to grab your eye and let you find the clock immediately. I wish this was a rule.

While I don't like digital clocks to start on, they seem to be easier for the crews to set up and maintain. My opinion only on not liking them, becasue i am a relic from the old school train of thought and it is hard to retrain my brain to convert the digits into where the hand would be on the analog style.

[Andrew 4CE]

I agree on finding a digital clock... when racing inboard, other than at Valleyfield where it is over the water, I never found the clock once. The inboard clock had white digits and I think this does not help.

A strob flasher on top might help, but also the 2-3 foot border tarp is a good idea. Neon safety green or orange or something. Sounds good!

[ricochet112]

The CORA clock, with red LED on dark background is the easiest clock to find out of any clock I've started on in 28 years of racing. No need for any colored background or flashing lights at all (I do like the idea of a rearward facing small display though). I'm also old school and found the transition from analog to digital frustrating at first.

Even my eyes could read the clock from the bank, pits, at Lake Lawrence, about 2500 feet away.

Ken Kaiser has the most knowledge of the specs on the clock.

From the top of my head each of the 3 panels weighs about 65lbs, it uses military water proof electrical connectors, the panels connect using a post on one and a hole on the other for a drop in slide together fit, buckles latch them in place.

The only down side I see, (as I have only set it up twice), is that the mounting method is just rope from cleats on top of the clock to whatever is available on the dock. I would think some type of foot mount or A-frame structure would make setting up easier and more stable.

CORA uses a huge 12v battery and an inverter to run the entire barge.

[39R]

The picture Andrew attached is of CORA's clock taken at Lake Lytle. The photo was snapped from probably a little more than 1/2 mile distance and on a very bright day and as can be seen, the clock is very readable. No strobe mounted on top needed to find it in the distance.

When we originally designed the clock we thought yellow LED lit segments behind a frosted clear glass lens would be best, thinking that they would offer better visibility on overcast days. We were wrong and this thought went against popular belief and design for sports field clocks that use red behind a dark led lens. In the process of switching over to the red LEDs and lenses as the clock now uses, we chose newer style high intensity LEDs with an expanded wide angle lens. The LEDs were then mounted with view axis optimized to the horizontal plane which makes this clock readable as soon as you have visibility to the front.

Other features include:

12VDC operation from a large fork lift battery (we also use a 12v to 110AC converter to the same battery that powers our camera and PA system) so not generator is needed to operate it.
Remote scorer’s time display so the scorers can have a synchronized display right in front of them.
Operator display and control panel mounted in the back with 3, 4 and 5 minute guns at the touch of a button plus a clock hold button and a drop 1 minute button.
Segments are mounted in detachable boxes for easier carrying and storage. The units all snap together at the barge and connect via umbilical cards.
Segment boxes are constructed or welded polypropylene sheet which makes them rugged and completely water proof.
Radar gun input can be used to display boat speed for testing, operator attaches a radar gun and scans boats as they pass and their speed is displayed in MPH (we’ve never actually used this option).

[Andrew 4CE]

Great info Ken, Thanks.

Sounds like a great and proven clock.

[Andrew 4CE]

One question Ken, does the display box for the scorers also have clock control? We would like to be able to float the clock on a pontoon boat or something have the scorers on shore.

[39R]

The CORA clock was specifically designed to be shore mounted with the barge (scorers stand) immediately behind. As I mentioned in the clock specs, the operations panel and a referees display is mounted into the back of the 1 minute segment. So for this reason our clock has to be at the barge so that it can be started, stopped etc.. The scorers remote display is umbilical connected via a ~50' cord with a military connector to the back of the minutes segment and is also sync’d with the display as is the referees display.

All that said, I have discussed with the designer working in a wireless remote control so that it can be operated at a distance, but probably no more than say a TV remote would work at though. Anything further and you would have to jump from a simple a infrared LED remote to a radio frequency remote. This is of course possible, but the expense starts to creep up on you.

Other features or improvements I’ve considered for our clock might be a photo/camera equipment start/stop circuit to automatically turn our camera on before zero, say at 10 seconds so as to record the jumpers and then off at zero plus 20 seconds to get all the legal starters. Another improvement would be larger and brighter referee and scorers displays. The ones we currently have are small and difficult to read in bright sunlight without shading them with your hand or a canopy.

[39R]

Andrew, I see now that my response did not exactly answer your question about the scorers display; the answer is no, this is only a sync'd count down display to the main clock. No controls are included. But again, anything is possible in the way of remote operation, it all depends on how elaborate you care to get with the design.

A corded remote would certainly be possible; Russ dodge was successfully designed a micro-relay circuit to operate our KILOS timing equipment to start and stop our stopwatches when the scanners are perpendicular to the surveyed course. And he does this with CAT5 cable routed across the lake bottom over a kilometer with absolute accuracy, so certainly something could be designed to operate our clock since the operations interface panel only contains SPST momentary switches to perform all its functions. You would simply wire a parallel circuit to each switch to another remote switch panel on the end of a long cable. If you did this so you could mount the clock out on the water, then I would suggest you scrap the remote scorers display and instead mount a smaller version of the main display in the back of the clock so the referee and scorers can see it from shore. Segments no more than 12” tall would probably be adequate, you could see/read this from a block away.

[39R]

OK, so it's a 36", we're getting somewhere.
Do the 3 panels separate from each other for ease of transport, mounted/connected adjacent to each on site? How much each panel weigh if they come apart?...or total weight if not?

Technical considerations:
- viewing angle, reading angle, brightness, each is different, this explains: http://grandwell.com/viewing_angle_brightness.php
- pixel size, matrix, pitch, they determine resolution: http://grandwell.com/resolution_pitch.php

CORA observations:
- Would #'s stand out better if case frame were black rather than aluminum grey; could cover this with black tape to test.
- Do you use/require the minutes, would seconds suffice?
- You could place a dark valance 1'-2' forward of the top leading edge to create a shadow from ambient light, improve contrast if req'd.
- Could use green/amber flashing light on top at 3min mark, to draw the eye while milling

Q's: What about remote control to start clock, how do you feed signal into start/finish camera/tv at judges stand?..with a wired strobe that flashes at 0:00 into the camera frame for review?

R-10, thx for feedback, keep it coming. Who has spec build sheet?

hydroid

Yes, the digits are 36” tall and transport separately for ease in carrying and storage in the club trailer.

The digits snap together using stainless steel boat hinges that easy slide apart to connect/discontent them together across the back and then have cam latches on the front to lock them all into each other. Then the two second digits connect to the minutes digit via military connectors to a junction panel where the 12vdc power cord, camera view LED to signal the start, radar gun and the scorers display all connect. It is no boast that you can easily construct or deconstruct this clock on the judges stand in less than 5 minutes making all the required mechanical fastenings and electrical connections.

The segment bars for each contain rows or wide angle, high intensity LEDs mounted so the wide angle feature is optimized horizontally to give maximum view left to right. This clock can be read from any angel that gives you even small view of the front. As for actual angle and brightness for LEDs we used, sorry but I do not remember, but do know that until about two/three years ago, they weren’t even available in wide angle, this was new technology that we took advantage of.

Case – the case should remain white to prevent over heating the control circuitry. Since the segments are liquid tight, there is no air circulation for the circuitry. Anything other than white and you begin to build internal temperature unnecessarily from exposure to the sun and risk failure. Besides, the case color has no effect on the clocks visibility from the water.

Minutes vs. seconds only – I would recommend that you design to the format of minutes and seconds. When you’re running the buoys at 40 to 80 mph trying to get lined up for the start, the last thing you want to do is “divide by 60” math in your head to see how close to one minute you are. The old sweep hand clocks had this same issue and so flags, flaps or lights had to be mounted on top of them to indicate which minute you were on. If you do not design to minutes and seconds then you will have to mount something similar to this old method. If you decide to do this, then just stay with the old sweep clock since you’ve accomplished very little in making it actually any easier to read the clock. Just my opinion on this one.

Valance – no valance or shade canopy is needed. You can take an LED clock designed like ours and point it directly into the brightest sunlight and still read it from a ½ mile away. Again to my comments to Andrew, we copied the tried and true design criteria used for just about every football, baseball, basketball high school clock made in the last 50 years and improved it by using state of the art LED lighting components. It works great in any weather condition just as it is.

Flashers or flashing LEDs – don’t need them, you can easily pick this thing out on the bank, it works that well.

Remote control and tv/camera start stop – see my comments to Andrew; we did not include these features in our prototype but have considered them as possible upgrades. One camera feature we did include/have on our clock is an umbilical connected single LED that we mount in view of our start recording camera lens. At one minute, this LED lights and at zero it goes out so that when you play back the recording of the start, you have an exact indication of zero right on the recoding to help eliminate jumpers.

[hydroid]

This is HUGE!

Ken, thanks your time to provide significant spec and experiential detail.
This is a template for all clubs go forward.
Going back to the drawing board to tweak.
Erik

[blueskyracer]

This will be a good thread for future reference the next time someone needs to build a time clock

[39R]

Happy to help and let me know if you have other questions, I'm always happy to share what we've learned and help with suggestions.

[Howie Nichols]

Just found this website with 15" digits (near the bottom of the page) for under $2000 and located in Ohio....

http://dc-digital.com/store/1clocktimers.html


This is what the rule reads and it does specify digit size, this is in the General Racing Rules:

RULE 10 • STARTING METHODS
1. Clock (sweep hand or digital), Modified LeMans, Pace Boat or Flag Starts may be used and must be stated in sanction application.
A. CLOCK, sweep hand type: This starting clock may be manually or electrically operated and must not be less than 6 feet in diameter. It shall be
equipped with lights or dropboards to visually inform the drivers of the passage of each minute during the five- or three-minute period. This clock
shall also indicate by seconds, the elapsed time of the last minute before the start.
B. CLOCK, digital type: This starting clock is to be electrically operated and be capable of driving a minimum of two digit displays not to be less than
21 in. X 36 in. actual digit size each. These digits should be in a black or dark face display case. Each digit shall be made using lights of not less than
a 75 watt incandescent bulb or lights of an equal brightness. When the clock is of an LED configuration, digits shall not be less than 12 in. x 18 in.
actual digit size and shall be made using LED (light emitting diodes.) This clock shall also indicate by seconds, the elapsed time of the last minute
before the start.
C. If a clock start is used, all Regional Championship races should have a photographic or video start, and all Divisional and National Championships
must have a photographic or video start.
D. With the exception of the OPC Category, race officials may not use videotapes to assist decision making except for starts and finishes.
2. In case of emergency, any form of substitute clock or starting method may be used, provided it is visible, accurate, and fair to all competitors.