F-4?

[BmJuby]

That is Warren Jones from Huntsville, AL. He said the boat is a 1961 Sid Son "F".

https://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=1345131778

Yup, that's what he told me. The make and class are correct. The year is not, SidSon's were not being made yet in 1961.

[BmJuby]

Was or is there a master list of registered race numbers through the APBA. This is based off an assumption the boat was raced through APBA and not another organization.

[sam]

No. Some numbers changed from year to year and were reissued to new racers. Racers could have different numbers in different divisions, Stock, alky, mod, OPC

[bh/]

F-4 is an alky number, so maybe that boat was used
with a VC/VD Konig, or an alky Crescent?
4-F is Danny Hooten of FL from at least the early 80s on.

[BmJuby]

F-4 is an alky number, so maybe that boat was used
with a VC/VD Konig, or an alky Crescent?
4-F is Danny Hooten of FL from at least the early 80s on.

It's definitely F-4. And I remember that JW said something indicated to him that it had been used in Alky. I'll contact him and see what he remembers.

[sam]

The boat is huge, definetly an F

I doubt any of these smaller motors would have been used

[Howie Nichols]

F-4 is an alky number, so maybe that boat was used
with a VC/VD Konig, or an alky Crescent?
4-F is Danny Hooten of FL from at least the early 80s on.

4-F was actually Gene Arbib, David drove for Gene. Once Gene passed I got 4-F in Stock & PRO, Peanut Pinner has it in MOD and Wendy Eldredge runs it in K-PRO. Before that I have no idea.....

[BmJuby]

The boat is huge, definetly an F

I doubt any of these smaller motors would have been used

The boat is 12' 7" and substantially wide, definitely an F. Are the VC/VD Konigs and Alky Cresents not F motors? I'm not familiar with these engines the way I am with Mercs.

[bill van steenwyk]

Konig Tutorial

VC and VD designation indicated that the "V" was the model of the engine, i.e. rotary valve, "C" class, VD indicated the same but "D" class. The Cresent was a "C" class engine, built in at least two configurations, one a gas burner that was legal for APBA Stock category in what was called I think "Super C" and limited to that make and model of engine only, and the alky racing version that also ran in the "C" class in that category. I don't remember the specific differences between the Stock and Alky but the carbs were different and probably CC's in the head and timing, and maybe gear ratio.

Go to BRF and type in Cresent and VC and VD Konig in the search function. There is MUCH information there on these engines, and others.

[BmJuby]

Thanks for that.

So F class in the mid to late 60s early 70s would have been running what? Loopers? Konigs? What exactly.

[Steve77t]

Ya'll are really off base some what here

First off Opposed 4 cylinder Konig motors are V series motors. Early type V Konig motors were 4 carburetor type. The V is only the series or boxer type. ( Opposed). The second letter was the class that they run in before the rules were changed to cc"s. Konig made some big motors for pro larger than 700 cc's or about 40ci. By APBA rule over this was in the F class. We also had a 750 cc class that we called the Konig motors Big D's. as they were closer to to and up to 750 cc's. The F Konig's as they were called in 4 cylinder trim were 67 mm bore and with std crankshaft was about 762 cc. Only the Merc 60 inch blocks could reach the displacement of 1100 cc. So to answer your question the F class was for over 40 ci,(700 cc) which allowed the Merc 44 and 60 motors to run F and the smaller Konigs to as well. Hope this answers your questions. Steve

[sam]

And 44 and 60 ci loopers

[bill van steenwyk]

Re: You'all are really off base here

Steve:

I don't see ANYTHING I said in my post that was not true. If so I would like to have it pointed out. Incomplete maybe, but not incorrect, and also answering the posters question, although briefly.

As you pointed out, I did not explain the VC or VD model was an opposed design, but rotary valve motors did have a "V" before the model designation. The question asked was answered correctly as far as the answer went because of limited time when I posted. Because of the way the question was asked, it was obvious the poster knew nothing about the motors he mentioned, and rather than go into much detail (as I lacked the time) I suggested he do some research that might make him more aware of these engines, as he seemed to be interested in them. Because of the very limited time frame the 4 carb models were used before the rotary valve models were introduced, and the length of time they were raced, a lot of racers, especially ones now asking about them, have probably either never seen one, or forgotten about them, although several of the 4 carb models lived on with a rotary valve conversion made by Harry ZAK, Homer Kincaids "C" National championship motor being among one of them.

The BRF search function was mentioned as a further and more complete/answer to the posters other part of the question. Normally when someone is curious about something, if they have to do a little research to find the answer, it means a little more and stays with longer, in addition to providing more information about the subject.

In addition he might become aware of some of your post's while doing his own research, which are very informative and complete, and have a lot of Wayne Baldwin's Konig factory photo's.

[Steve77t]

Didn't say you did Bill

No I didn't try to imply you wee wrong bill, just trying to be more clear to the question about the F class and also maybe answer a future question to this poster, That's all! Steve

[BmJuby]

Thanks guys, I really appreciate all the info.