What do you think of this,partII

[DaveAugustineSr]

I would like to see the same format used in stock and mod as is used in the pro division,i.e.,three heat,all final,national for all classes having 12 or more entries.The pro nats are much more understandable to the casual observer and are over in one set. This lets inspection start sooner,more people can't get out of turnboat duty,etc.There would have been fewer heats run at the stock/mod nats even if we had run 3 heats for every class.I attended all three nats for the last 2 years and I can tell you that this is the most fun to watch.
This should put a nickle in the jukebox.

[Joe J]

Dave:

The last time this came up, people argued that the 3 heat format takes too long.

I penciled it out, and if you have a class of 48 boats at the nationals, the 3 heat format actually has one less heat in it.

Also, in the 3 heat format, you run against different boats in the 2 heats. So if a driver draws heat #1 against all the top dogs, he may not have to race them in his (or her ) second heat.

I was for it then, and am for it now.

Joe

[Haüenstein]

How does it work again?

Also, in the 3 heat format, you run against different boats in the 2 heats. So if a driver draws heat #1 against all the top dogs, he may not have to race them in his (or her ) second heat.

Could somebody go over the process quickly? I haven't been to Depue for a while and can't remember how it works out that everyone gets an equal draw over the course of the three heats.

Thanks!
Mikey

[Joe J]

Mike:

Let's say you have a class at the nationals with 48 boats. This means you have 4 sets od elimanations, = 8 heats, plus two finals, for a total of 10 heats for this class.

The Pro nationals would take these same 48 boats, and have elim 1A, B C, & D. Then the boats would be shuffled for heats 2A, B,C, & D. The 12 boats with the most points would then go to the final, heat 3, for a total of 9 heats.

I believe that the divisional winners would be given a spot in the final, but am not sure. In the pro category there are only 2 divisions, east and west.

Joe

[epugh66]

It also helps if you can bump up the boats per heat by a few. And, you want to draw the fastest boats each heat, that way you have a chance to pick up points on them and prevent them from getting easy points in a weak heat. Of course you must win the final!!!!!!! or no body knows.

[dholt]

In the 3 heat format, how do you account for the pre-qualified Divisional and National Champ?

Currently, they go straight to the final. You can't do that in the PRO format, because every heat is a final.

You can't just put them in heat 3...because they need points from the 2 previous heats to have a chance to win. So, do the Divisional and National Champ just go in the mix with everyone else to start the day?


Also, the driver gets potentially 1 less heat of racing for their money.

Currently, you could run 2 elim heats and 2 final heats for your $45 entry fee.
The Pro format gives you one less heat.

I agree there are attractive features to the 3 heat format. Mixing up the entries is a cool idea.

But who wants to spend less time at the Nationals anyway????


Dana

[CSR4C]

I like the PRO Nationals format, however the qualifing at the divisionals is very important (at least on the west coast). It is always one of the biggest races of the year and have clubs fighting over the oppourinity to hold the race, since it is always a money maker.
How about a nationals format where the field is 24 boats. This would include qualifiers from divisionals, last years champion. Could also include last years high point & even winter national champion.
Have one heat elems at the nationals to fill out the 24. Then go to the PRO 3 heat fomat with the 24 boat field. Heats 1A & 1B, mix them up for heats 2A & 2B, top 12 in points in heat 3. Add up the points for the winner.

Darrell

[David Weaver]

Another Perspective

Dana makes some good points with regards to the impact of the different format used at the PRO Nationals. Maybe you lose a heat and what about the automatic qualifiers?

With the PRO Nationals format, every heat of racing counts. There is no cruising to make the finals. If this is the one "grand daddy" race of the year, should not every heat count towards the ultimate winner? One bad start in an early heat can be the difference between winning and placing (i.e. my friend Paul Hooten this year in OSY400, 2 first finishes, but something like 7th or 8th in the first heat. I believe Paul had the best set-up rig in the field, but he could not quite overcome a bad start in the first heat. It made for some drama however!!).

In the last heat of 250 hydro, there were 5 boats with enough points to win the Nationals with a win or top-three type of finish in the final heat. Again, dramatic set-up for the finals. Literally, a winner take all heat (actually, the guy in third won the nationals). One of the top boats (700 points) failed to start and the points leader (800 points) was washed down in the first corner. It was wide open after that.

On a pratical level for the PRO's, the automatic qaulifiers do not really impact the final heats. I could see where the SO/MOD's would have to make an allowance for this.

Also, with some of the stock classes, I think a last chance qualifier would create another exciting heat of racing.

This is not to say one way is better or worse. Sometimes, it is just fun to shake-up the format a little. You can always put it back!!

[BP125V]

Less boat time?

I think the 3 heat format is interesting in that in heats 1 and 2 you may face different drivers and it may or may not help you, but the down side of losing a heat if you do qualify is just not worth it. I've always liked the 2 heat approach for the finals. You are starting from scratch and have to get it done for 2 more heats, it's a real challenge.

Plus like Dana said, why would you want to spend less time at the Nationals?

[ryan_4z]

The 3 heat format does sound pretty interesting. But I really feel that the format we have better suits stock outboard. Besides, what would be the reason for changing. I havent seen any problems with the way the nationals is run right now. Change for the sake of change is hardly ever for the best. Plus I think that starting from scratch when you go into the finals makes for a really great and exciting race. Another downside to the 3 heat format in Stock is that we can only run 12 boats per heat. That is probably the big reason that this works well in Pro and wouldn't in Stock. And I don't think thats a rule we want to get rid of. Twelve boats is a good number for one heat.

[Sean Augustine]

One Big Upside!

BIG UPSIDE: Never again having to hear, "Oh yeah, well he had a slow/fast qualifyling heat"?

I have a solution - have everyone draw for BOTH of their qualifying heats - highest point totals go to the available slots in the finals - 2 heat final.

Potential whine: "...but I have heat #1C and #2A - I don't have enough time to..."

ANSWER: (actually a rhetorical question) When was the last time at the nationals someone didn't have time to do anything?

Potential whine #2: " I can't remember my heats if they're different"

ANSWER: Then you probably can't remember the number of laps in a race, the time of the driver's meeting, etc. You should probably take up a sport that requires a little less concentration.

ANOTHER UPSIDE: There is no rule change required for this. The race committee can decide to do this today.

This is not change for the sake of change - it's another way to get closer to insuring the fastest twelve boats are in the finals. And insuring the entries in the finals are decided by racing instead of drawing a number out of a hat (you're actually drawing two numbers out of a hat but that actually makes it fairer...if you can follow my logic here).

Two different qualifying heats - two final heats.

Sean