Save stock outboard - vote no on proposal 6

[17W]

Huh?

Pat states- "WHO CAN GET JACKED UP RACING AT 70 mph."

I hate to chime in against a fellow NY'er but my response to your comment is, "who can get jacked up about not even getting off the beach?"

As the performance of your equipment was less than stellar @ Depue last year.....

[raceright]

Hey Raceright.

Get the castor oil out of your eyes and re-read my post.

I'm saying I DESIRE to race at premiere events. Which in Stock Outboard means larger numbers and translates to TOUGHER competition. You know...where you actually have to QUALIFY for the final because there are more than 12 boats in the class. Of course, being a regular at Stock races, you'd know that, wouldn't you?

I'll compare my racing resume up against yours any time, big-boy. You may be able to bully others on here...but not me. How many National titles you got under your belt? If you're about winning...let's hear it. When you get to 10, call me.

Come on out and cram yourself in a BSR or a 20ssH someday and let's see how you hold up if you consider it such a cake walk.

Sorry to burst your bubble...but unless you're racing in the SST 120 or Champ class, you're not beating the fastest outboards in the world either. No slam against PRO...just against your typical ill-informed, factless ramblings that litter this website.

Hey Superboy Just to clarify my only bit%^$h about your post is the 60 boat thing--not needed to put on a show.
Records change all the time--but if you look up APBA's you will see that competion record for 5mile 3 laps is a 500 hydro--at 104--champ boat is 101
but who's counting Oh and the worlds fastest outboard at 180 is a nitrous oxide alky hydro with a 8 cylinder evinrude believe it is a X UIM alky.

No I do not have a list of National Championships in any classes. And because I have more respect for some of my Stockoutboard friends I will not belittle your accomplishments. Didn't wish to challenge you on a personal level on this site but come to a USTS race and we can have a debate on the subject.

In your defensed I'll say this Pro and OPC and Champ do switch fastest titles year after year guess you did not know that.
No Problem with a face to face if you can.
Pat

How Old are you =some do not know you rep. Castor clear

[pops67g]

How did it get to this?

Someone suggests a little friendly competition between "rival" clubs where the winner gets a handshake and a beer from the loser and now it turns into an exercise in character assassination. With the 70mph benchmark in play here it seems that the Kpro kids accomplishments must be kept secret as they cannot hope to exceed that magic number. I must race for all the wrong reasons because I can still be good friends with guys that beat me.

[B Walker]

The discussion of the pros and cons of series racing needs its own thread.

I dont think the original poster was suggesting replacing stock and modified outboard with a series format. He was floating an innovative idea trying to increase participation and involvement at the Regional level.

The discussion has gone seriously off track. May as well take it right off the rails....

The people advocating the PRO position here on hydroracer should be the biggest supporters of Stock and Modified Outboard Racing as there is only a handful of PRO members in the last 20+ years that were not Stock and/or Modified first.

Simply put, if growth matters to PRO, support Stock and Modified Outboard Racing.

Stock and Mod are future PRO members, yet when discussing the relative merits of the different Categories there is a real "Us vs Them" mentality that bleeds over into name calling and finger pointing. It is ugly and unproductive.

I will probably get more PM's telling me to "stfu, you dont race PRO" but oh well, not much space left in my inbox anyhow.

BW

[raceright]

The discussion of the pros and cons of series racing needs its own thread.

I dont think the original poster was suggesting replacing stock and modified outboard with a series format. He was floating an innovative idea trying to increase participation and involvement at the Regional level.

The discussion has gone seriously off track. May as well take it right off the rails....

The people advocating the PRO position here on hydroracer should be the biggest supporters of Stock and Modified Outboard Racing as there is only a handful of PRO members in the last 20+ years that were not Stock and/or Modified first.

Simply put, if growth matters to PRO, support Stock and Modified Outboard Racing.

Stock and Mod are future PRO members, yet when discussing the relative merits of the different Categories there is a real "Us vs Them" mentality that bleeds over into name calling and finger pointing. It is ugly and unproductive.

I will probably get more PM's telling me to "stfu, you dont race PRO" but oh well, not much space left in my inbox anyhow.

BW

Agreed

[jevans47w]

Calm down Dudes, nothing is **** here. Lets all watch the Big Lebowski, relax, and maybe have a few white russians. My point is right on with what Merc1 and Danna are saying. We have the membership numbers within relative close proximity to one another. Yet we only really come together for one race a year (Divisionals). And even at this event you only get the diehards that show at the other clubs race. I could care less about the whole series aspect; I'm in it for the competive fun factor. Like Danna says; racing against 4-5 boats every weekend isn't much to get jacked up about. But if we could get 1/2 to 3/4 turnout of all clubs involved, the clubs involved would benefit off the increased entries fee cash alone. It wouldn't be much additional work for the clubs, just more boats. We would have to run a tight ship when conducting the race. Michigan does an excellent job of this. The incentive could be as simple as the losing club (based on total points of all club members) pays for dinner and party at last race of series. Have the clubs commit to paying this due ahead of time. Then it's just a matter of getting your members to show up and race. More racers more points. Isn't that what's wrong with racing right now; lack of boat counts at races. Ultimately, it's all about getting people to show up and race.

[B Walker]

Now we are back on track....kind of....

What is wrong with racing is that there is no growth and no plan for growth and no leadership promoting growth and no committee tasked with the responsibilty of promoting growth.

Hence we have had 40+ years of.......no growth.......

If the membership is not growing, were dying.

A growing membership base solves all financial problems, at all levels.

The only thing that has been proven to get new members is to get them a ride in a boat.

Growth Plan

There are 450 Stock Outboard members, if 25% of them got just 1 friend, neighbor, or extended family member a ride and just half of those riders became APBA members and nobody else quit we would almost double the number of members in Stock Outboard in just 5 years. Actual number is 810 total members.

Give a friend, neighbor, or cousin a ride in your boat. Then get them to single event a weekend of racing. Game over.

BW

[csh2z]

Here is the problem in a nutshell.
Brad, you are a perfect example. How is your friend, neighbor or cousin going to justify investing in a hobby that doesn't have more than 1 or2 races per year within 500 miles from home?
You are from Florida, there are very few races in Florida and only a handful of diehard racers. Every year you lose members. Even the diehards go away.
Look at a map of the U.S., then look at where the races are. The only places that can grow, are the areas that have multiple races in a small radius. We are becoming a regional sport.Some regions can still be saved and grow re:regions 1,2,3,4,11,8,?. Some of those and many others may be lost for good. Into which column does Region 5 fall?
Without local racing there can be no growth.Where do new racers come from? How do they find us if there are no races to go to?
Is there racing in Wyoming? Who is there to put one on? Who will go? How can it grow?

[raceright]

Here is the problem in a nutshell.
Brad, you are a perfect example. How is your friend, neighbor or cousin going to justify investing in a hobby that doesn't have more than 1 or2 races per year within 500 miles from home?
You are from Florida, there are very few races in Florida and only a handful of diehard racers. Every year you lose members. Even the diehards go away.
Look at a map of the U.S., then look at where the races are. The only places that can grow, are the areas that have multiple races in a small radius. We are becoming a regional sport.Some regions can still be saved and grow re:regions 1,2,3,4,11,8,?. Some of those and many others may be lost for good. Into which column does Region 5 fall?
Without local racing there can be no growth.Where do new racers come from? How do they find us if there are no races to go to?
Is there racing in Wyoming? Who is there to put one on? Who will go? How can it grow?

As Always you are right on John. In the 80's Florida had so many racers that
there was eliminations in all classes. One main reason the USTS came about.

PRO's many times did not get to race (others also) . But combining regions and having a show that was paid for by a sponsor or two with prize money and or show money drew the fastest and best at almost every race and it evolved into a Mini nationals AT every race.

All racing is going to go this way--real trick having a show for the Fans and sponsor is what it requires and not all drivers want that (and this is understandable)
because some of the rules and requlations imposed by places that will pay for you takes away from the fun. No beer, clean up after race,you can't go on the grass, no campers, park way over there,no tents,you get the point and maybe no smoking.
Oh and this one is for Mr Holt NO NO NO we only want a 4 to 5 hour program and only about 70 boats. Not 100

Remember we borrow the water and they call the shots--toooo many of you hate this and fight it,give up it iis the way it is == even offshore has to kisssome ones butt to race.

Pat

[B Walker]

State of racing in FL:

1980s: 15-20 weekends of racing. Elims in ASR, ASH, and at least one other class every weekend. 150-200 entries average

1990s: 8-10 weekends of racing. No elims except on Divisional or record courses. 100-120 entries average

2000s: 4-5 weekends of racing. mostly 4 boat classes and lots of "rent a drivers" to make enough for a class. 50-70 entries average

2011: 1 race (Lakeland,FL) and the only classes on the schedule were CSH and AXSR. 20-25 or so entries

Stock and Modified outboard racing in FL is officially dead.

RIP

BW

[csh2z]

There is a big difference between Stock and PRO. Stock survival depends on sustaining and adding racesites. Marketing to attract potential new drivers on the local level and keep it growing one member at a time. Wherever we do still race multiple times per season, the potential for growth is there. Where there is nothing, there will be nothing.

PRO mostly depends on Stock and Mod for it sustanance. Not many people will go from being a fan in the stands to driving a 100 mph raceboat.

[Dave M]

"Series"

There is something good that comes from a "Series" race that I have not seen anyone mention yet. For you race directors, go to the biggest potential sponsor in your area, and try to sell them a boat race. They are going to look at you funny, right ? Walmart prolly won't even let you in the door. Now then, go to your local media 6 - 8 months in advance of your event, put it in the paper and on the radio (cheap media) and lable it as The "blank Series" stop # 2. Something catchy. Don't mention boats or outboards, the public don't care, what they will see is the fact there is a real race in their back yards.

From there you can grow sponsors, etc.

From a racers standpoint, a series means little. It simply means another title at the venue we were going to anyway. Toss in the extra tow money, and some prize money (make it more than entry fee...) and have at it. Use "Series" racing as a marketing tool.

[B Walker]

I often see racers recommending "take a radio spot out or newspaper advertisement". I have worked in both mediums and dont think most racers understand the costs of an advertising campaign so let me break it down a little.

Forget newspaper...circulation is way way down and rates are up. Lets talk radio.

Here is my local #1 radio station rate card which is in a top 100 market with a consistant 4%-6% marketshare which translates to 100,000 to 150,000 listeners on primetime morning drive.

http://boostyoursalesjax.com/Documents/Net%20Rates.pdf

So, a 5AM to 9AM (drive time) 30 second spot is 185$ per spot. A contract might look like this: 1000$ to 3000$ up front for production and recording of the spot, then a minimum contract for 30 spots at full rate which is 5500$. Discounted rates may start applying with more spots.

Minimum cost for the smallest contract would be 6500$, but they will be glad to bill you quarterly.

In my opinion, any club with the resources to run an advertising campaign like that would be better off buying a complete rig and having driving schools and "rent a rides".

But here is the real problem: no money should be spent on promotion of anything until the membership base is stabilized.

BW

[Dave M]

Outside The Box

BW,

Think outside the box. How about getting that radio spot for free ? Line up some interviews... get a news reporter to interview you, talk it up. Line up some phone interviews with some potential entries from out of state, etc. Get the radio to sponsor the race...

Newspapers are definately NOT out of print. Think outside the box.... just about every newspaper has a website that is most likely more used than the old paper print.

Most counties in MI have a once a week paper that goes out that has local happenings, garagre sales, for sale ads, and a lot of 1/4 page ads, car dealerships advertise in it, it is not to expensive. Ours is called The Shopper. Just about everyone I know reads it in my area.

So, BW, what you are saying is nothing can change, becasue everything else is now changed ? I don't know the answer either, but whatever is done sure can't hurt.

In close, I think you are speaking your numbers from major cities, or larger cities. A lot of places in the midwest are small communities that still operate like the good old days... hence why the sponsorship numbers add up in that speciac area. The biggest difference I have noticed is the better prize/tow money races I have seen come from small towns that actually want boat races to be run... not a city that you have to fight to get permits, and promise them you will patrol the pits to make sure nobody is standing on endangered sand or grass.

[csh2z]

It's not a question of just thinking inside or outside the box. We have all the ideas, we know what must be done, it's a question of doing. Most of us work for a living and put many hours into our own racing program. We need to find someone with the time and skills required to help each region grow. And that person will have to be PAID to promote Stock Outboard (as an example).