Save stock outboard - vote no on proposal 6

[Slowboat510]

Why is the restricted Yamato 102 excluded from 20SSH/BSH?

It was nice to have my driver transition from ASH to 20SSH instead of ASH to CSH.

It was also nice to run the same rig in 2 classes (20SSH and CSH). This plan would miss out on the potential 20SSH entry fee from someone with a Y102 Hydro.

[Matt Dagostino]

Complicated!!

Combining this and that will not solve problems. We run mod, stock, sometimes pro at local races. Why? to cover the sanction fee and insurance. We've had to add all this stuff together to pay the bills and then usually lose money.

This is not the time to get cute on eliminating equipment. Maybe in a few years.
Tim

As the Region 4 SORC Commissioner i voted NO on this at the National Meeting basically for the reason Tim outlines. We are in a catch 22 nowadays in the Stock Outboard Division. We can not 'stand alone' at any local races. We need help from MOD's PRO's OPC'S etc etc to get boat count to the point where member clubs can survive. In the 1980's when we went through a 'blood letting' of sorts by introducing the OMC 15, Merc 44xs, Yamato"s etc. we had a no brainer situation. Members were abundent, the economy was great and we had BIG TIME manufactures offering to support us and race costs were managable.

Now we are being CHOKED by APBA with big up front costs to put on a local race and there is the rub..........a club is 5-6K in the hole before the first trailer pulls in friday night!!

I agree conceptually that it would be nice to go back to our roots of J, A,B, C and D(as in delightful stock hydro)...........but upsetting the 25ssh and BSH drivers is not in the cards now. As i expressed in the meeting, class structure in Stock Outboard is one of our issues that needs addressing on a National level. However, i am not convinced that this is the time or place.

My experience is that new and existing (yes EXISTING members count to me) make class and equipment decisions on several factors and a LARGE part of that decision is what is going on in there local race area. For example running 25ssh makes sense if you live in New England or Long Island and maybe Canada. And yes, it may not be in the best interest of Stock Outboarding Nationally to perpetuate this fractured regional class or BSH for that matter but these classes help local clubs in there areas survive and give those racers of those classes purpose and a place to race.

I certainly have no crystal ball and no immediate solution for our declining numbers but as several members have posted here, MONEY is a large contributing factor..........i believe by cutting race and equipment expenses is the quickest avenue to encouraging participation. My race team travels the country as much as anyone and races that provide financial incentive (low entry fees, prize money, tow money, free drivers parties) seem to attract enteries!!

Things like the J Class Program in Regions 10 and 4 along with MHRA's driving school lead by Dean Sutherland and Meskerik's are the hands on way we will grow members. One at a time............

Seems like nothing is easy nowadays...

The Captain

[Matt Dagostino]

Spot On..............!

The proposal doesn't eliminate equipment on its face, but it could very well do that. I have a 25 and I don't think it would be too much fun running against the C yamato . I don't believe it would be the safest thing to be doing either.

Agreed! Our classes were designed for ONE MOTOR ONE CLASS. Bozo's that stand on the sideline proporting that combining engines is quick and painless are just plain uninformed!

Trying to create 'PARITY' amongst different engines and boats is a fragile and tricky process and to do it without hurting members is a balancing act that takes work!

[B Walker]

The proposal doesn't eliminate equipment on its face, but it could very well do that. I have a 25 and I don't think it would be too much fun running against the C yamato . I don't believe it would be the safest thing to be doing either. That being said, I hang up my 25 . That's the plan. Hang up your motor and go buy a new one, but what if I just hang up my old one?

I am a pragmatic realist and completely understand there will be people that will not choose to race under this proposal if it is passed.

But choosing not to race is not the same thing as being told your equipment is no longer welcome to race in APBA as happened to more than 400 owners of KG-4's and MK-15's in 1985. At least with this proposal the drivers can make a choice.

Here is more pragmatic realism: This proposal will be voted on with an overwhelming "No" because racers vote their own interests, not what is good for the sport.

There is no process in APBA to make decisions for the good of the sport. Until there is there will be no significant changes of any type.

BW

[B Walker]

Agreed! Our classes were designed for ONE MOTOR ONE CLASS. Bozo's that stand on the sideline proporting that combining engines is quick and painless are just plain uninformed!

Trying to create 'PARITY' amongst different engines and boats is a fragile and tricky process and to do it without hurting members is a balancing act that takes work!

100% agree about the parity comitties difficult (impossible) job as it is currently defined but have a completely different takeaway.

The parity comittees should be clearly designating a "motor of choice", and keeping other motors close, but clearly sub-par, not trying to perfectly balance different motors. Call it a Competition Committee instead.

This keeps high quality used entry level equipment available at decent pricing until a new racer decides he wants to commit to the expense of brand new equipment and compete at the highest levels.

BW

[daveracerdsh]

What a mess

At least we can all agree on one thing...we all have a great passion for the sport..otherwise we would not be taking the time to go to the meetings (at our own expense) to debate the issues at hand. I honestly look at all of this, as a stock commissioner, and think..what on earth do we do...we can't afford to lose even one member, but yet we also have to look ahead to the future of the sport. As I type this, I just finished watching a Supercross event in Indianapolis....where they run Yamaha, Honda, Suzuki, and so on down the line in the same event. They also do this in most other forms of motor sports. Why on earth should stock outboard racing be any different? If there are 2 motor makers that want to have their product compete in the same class/speed catagory....why should we not want that? If the D Tohatsu (yes this is self serving) was not brought in a few years ago...where would the premier class in stock be? Relying on a motor that was last produced in 1993? Yes, we all have differences, but we also have to look at the big picture. Just some random thoughts. David

[MGallagher]

Dave,
I was watching the same AMA race, great race! But, to get to the point, I don't think comparing AMA parity and Stock Outboard parity is something that we can do. First is the money. Parity is alot easier to achieve with the amount of money that is in AMA. Second, the differences in the dynamics of motor parity in stock motorcycles and stock outboards are tremendous. In stock outboard there are different motor sizes, different cc's, different tower heights, different weights, different tower angles, etc,etc,etc...And I am not too familiar with AMA or any other motorcross racing , but I would bet that it does not even come close to being that many different variables when it comes to there parity issues.

HOwever, I think we might agree on prop 6.

[Jeff Brewster 59s]

You are correct Mr Kelly

Wondered when someone would catch this. 45sst is gone and it was not even considered what would happen to the west coast race schedule.

Vote No on #6
Where is 45SS? This class is building in Region 10 and had 22 APBA racing members in 2010.

Jeff Kelly

[Jeff Brewster 59s]

You are exactly right Slowboat. Let's reduce our class structure to 8 classes, lose 25% of our membership in the process, and then say "oh my, we dont have enough entries to support the race" then add another day of racing to the schedule "so the drivers make up the loss in entry fees" and in the process add more heats to the schedule to pay for the expense of the race.
We then go right back to the 40 or 50 heat long race day until dark.
And what did we prove other than losing members?????

Why is the restricted Yamato 102 excluded from 20SSH/BSH?

It was nice to have my driver transition from ASH to 20SSH instead of ASH to CSH.

It was also nice to run the same rig in 2 classes (20SSH and CSH). This plan would miss out on the potential 20SSH entry fee from someone with a Y102 Hydro.

[Jeff Brewster 59s]

Bull....!!!!!

Excuse me 45ss is gone immediately and as soon as the parity committees get done with this mess there will be no OMC A, no 15 or 20 HotRod, no model 80, no model 102, no 25xs, no 44xs because the motor of choice will be made the dominant motor because it is currently produced.
You are right the rest of the engines can be raced and they will look like the 25ss in the 25xs class. They will have three options. They will get smoked and have to buy new, lose every weekend or quit.
This is one of the many items I would have gladly explained if you would have picked up the phone.

Everyone::::Is Stock Outboard membership high enough to withstand this class structure in 4 to 5 years???

A - Sidewinder 15s & Mercury 15?
B - Sidewinder 15h & Sidewinder 20 (does this combination make any sense)
C - 302
D - Tohatsu

My Prediction for 2016 race season.......

Stock Outboard racing membership - 33 drivers

Modified Outboard racing membership - 428 drivers!!!!!

(a little over inflated, but i hope you get my point)

p.s. I have no political axe to grind, I only want our membership to understand what they are voting for. Why? Because I care.

NO EQUIPMENT IS ELIMINATED!!!!!!!!!!

Everyone in this proposal still has a place to race in APBA.

How many times does that need to be said?

Obviously, a few more times.....

There is a political saying that a lie repeated often enough becomes the truth and I am tired of the lie that "people will be beached" being used by people with a political axe to grind.

BW

[reed28n]

Yikes

All this because of one vote at a National meeting to leave the Mercury 15 to race in only two classes.

2009 there was a plan mapped out which was scrapped in its entirety by the current commission. Many of the current commissioners were present at that meeting in North Carolina. The 2009 Plan, for lack of a better name, was far more inclusive than what is being proposed on the ballot you have on your kitchen table.

There was a plan for the future and a predictable path. The political machine in the mid west squashed all of those reasonable ideas without consideration. Without a tweak or modification. Without common sense, only reacting on misinformation and fear.

Now, fast forward two years and Jeff's estimates are that 25% of participants are eliminated. (you can debate about the numbers)

So, here is the forecast. This commission will be replaced or just change their mind. Another new chairman will be hoisted up and another complete change will be made prior to October 1, 2012 when his proposal would hit the road. What a colossal waste of resources and energy. All of the passion in the world would not pile up to an ounce of sense in this whole process.

Take a good hard long look at this proposal. It effects every class. CSH is the most popular and most success class in our category, so successful in fact they race it in the Pro category. New motors are available, 302 National Champs 3 out of the last 4 years, a race every weekend no matter where you go........a real success story for Stock Outboard. I can honestly say we got that one right. So......let's mess it up.

I have paid my APBA membership for the year and will continue to race what ever you call it and long as I can........but who won't? Who will we miss to attract because they can't figure out what to buy or they can't understand what the hell they are watching on the water?

I know, let's have a 1/4 mile record......that will fix everything.

[ricochet112]

So, here is the forecast. This commission will be replaced or just change their mind. Another new chairman will be hoisted up and another complete change will be made prior to October 1, 2012 when his proposal would hit the road. What a colossal waste of resources and energy. All of the passion in the world would not pile up to an ounce of sense in this whole process.
I know, let's have a 1/4 mile record......that will fix everything.

I've said this before; as long as APBA is self governed we will be as effective as Washington DC in doing what's right for the whole and leaving our self interests at the door, (every 4-8 years in DC, and 2-4 in APBA, we go from one extreme to the other).

The Kilo time trials isn't attended well every year, who thinks that a non HOC time trials will draw enough entries to break even?

From a strictly selfish viewpoint, I would now be able to have a place to race my 25XS on the West coast on a hydro...just sayin...

[nicf14]

I am told that the clinical definition of insanity is the tenancy to do the same thing over and over again and expect different results.
Stephen F. Lynch

[Matt Dagostino]

Clarification...............

So, here is the forecast. This commission will be replaced or just change their mind. Another new chairman will be hoisted up and another complete change will be made prior to October 1, 2012 when his proposal would hit the road. What a colossal waste of resources and energy. All of the passion in the world would not pile up to an ounce of sense in this whole process.

To clarify........Chairman Hearn did not support or dissaprove of the class restructuring proposal presented by Dean Sutherland. He simply allowed discussion to take place and condensened what could have been a several hour presentation into a more managable timeframe.

The ELECTED Commissioners voted to allow this item to go on the ballot for the membership to consider and vote on. It was a close vote to allow it to ballot. Chairman Hearn had no vote in the matter.

Once again, unless a person attends these days of meetings things tend to get lost in the translation.

For the record i voted for the matter to be defeated and not go on the ballot.............any other Commissioners wish to step up and make there position known????

[Jeff Brewster 59s]

You are correct Mike you will be able to race with the CSH. How long do you think they will tolerate you beating them? Especially on some of the big courses you have out there?
Anyone that understands 25SSH knows that 15 lbs and a restrictor plate doesn't mean diddley in slowing them down.
Food for thought...you will need at least two engines to be successful in CSH. Your race course size of the day will help you decide what to run. Do we really want that?

I've said this before; as long as APBA is self governed we will be as effective as Washington DC in doing what's right for the whole and leaving our self interests at the door, (every 4-8 years in DC, and 2-4 in APBA, we go from one extreme to the other).

The Kilo time trials isn't attended well every year, who thinks that a non HOC time trials will draw enough entries to break even?

From a strictly selfish viewpoint, I would now be able to have a place to race my 25XS on the West coast on a hydro...just sayin...