AOF vs. NBRA

[14-H]

I just returned from Alexandria, Louisiana and the AOF Nationals. I was impressed by the hard working group that put on the event and the race site, but not the turn-out. I've heard in the past that the AOF Nationals rivaled some of APBA's in numbers. So what happened in AOF? Eddie the racer.

[Holeshot Racing]

Confused

Its too bad the turn out was not good, but I am failing to see the opening line comparision. AOF vs NBRA? Maybe I missed something,if so please let me know
Thanks

Terry

[Kevin Martin]

i thought it was just me???? i had problems with that as well, i'm sure however ed will enlighten us soon kevin

[pro350hydro]

Hey guys that caught my eye as well.


My opinion is there are to many National Organizations. Boat racers are spread to thin amongst them, and there are WAY to many classes.

Just my 2 cents

Sattler

[rbengines]

Froze in the Past.

I just returned from Alexandria, Louisiana and the AOF Nationals. I was impressed by the hard working group that put on the event and the race site, but not the turn-out. I've heard in the past that the AOF Nationals rivaled some of APBA's in numbers. So what happened in AOF? Eddie the racer.

Being a long time racer who has been out too long I'm just getting back in again. I see classes made up of antigue engines of the past. What's wrong with this picture. Nothing if you have access to these motors, but to a newbee who never heard of a 44 merc or a Yamato 80,102, 202, There's no easy access. The major companies have abandon us for lack of sales. We are in a world of many deversities(Jet Skis,motorcross,and etc. who by the way have factory backing)and the organizations split. Split as we are now and the survival rate is remote. I've seen the peaks and valleys in my 25 years of racing outboards and I'd hate to see it die in my generation. I don't have all the answers, which makes me part of the problem, but I do know if we unite we may survive for the next generation.

Rusty Bonin

[YankeeRacing]

ED,
As an outsider looking in, and having nothing to do with AOF anymore (retired---oh I love that word!). I have these observations.
1. Timing:
The AOF nationals had been moved several times this year. I think that Pineville in October is a good solution as USUALLY the weather is perfect there at this time of the year. However, there needs to be a tradition set for this race. AOF needs to stick with this site and date and build on that.
2. Cycle:
Law of nature; things run in cycles. The following will explain why I think AOF is in a down cycle.
3. Fewer Racers:
We've all seen a decline in our numbers from earlier years in racing. APBA has more numbers, so the decline in boat racing isn't as evident. Take an organization like AOF that has fewer numbers to begin with, and the decline in racing is going to look more pronounced.
4. Too much competition:
Too many racing organizations. Too many races on top of each other. This wouldn't really be an issue if we got our numbers up overall in boat racing. Needs to be more cooperation as we all learn to live together.
5. Expenses: Let's face it, at $2 a gallon, many are not traveling. Especially in October when they have already spent their gas money AND taken all of the time off work that they could spare. I would venture that MOST of the racers at Pineville had already been to at least one national event already this year. Those who weren't there just weren't willing to put out the money for another one, so basically, you had a "local" race in Pineville.
6. Labels:
Some may also call this false pride or even close mindedness. There are those who will not attend any races other than "their" organization. They think it is not cool, or they just don't understand. Some, like my family, does not care who is putting on a race, as long as we can race. I am so proud of you Ed, and Dean and others who apparently feel the same way. I really don't believe there is a place in this world for prejudice on any level. And opening your mind to other experiences can be fun and informative, and can only be healthy for boat racing.
7. AOF has learned its place:
I truly believe this. The purpose of AOF is to stage cheaper races and work on a grass roots level to encourage new racers. AOF is NOT in the business of becoming another APBA. Now that AOF knows its place, I think that APBA needs to learn to take advantage of that scenario and not think of the two organizations as competing against each other.
Has the AOF philosophy worked? I know it has! Whitney Point, Dayton, and the Pro nationals saw many racers who came up from the realms of AOF. Would they have been there had it not been for their roots? Probably not, because they might not have been exposed to boat racing. That equals SUCCESS. (And maybe I am the only one in the world who sees this, as I probably processed many of these people's first racing applications).
In addition, look at the race sites that have been cultivated because of AOF. Jesup, Georgia is a perfect example. It is difficult to take APBA into a new site that does not have a proven track record. But take AOF into the site with the $200 insurance a week end and the $60 sanction fees, and build the reputation of the site. Then, as with the case of Jesup, Georgia, move on.
Now, there are some clubs and racers who don't want to move on and their comfort level is AOF and always will be. I know that my family also does some dirt track car racing and some outlaw drag boat racing. We do it strictly for fun and have no desire to move up to the NASCAR tracks, or even sanctioned drag racing.
Some of the smarter clubs out there will use cheaper AOF races to add some money to their treasury. AOF is fine with that too.
6. In the case of NBRA; I think that you have some members who still believe they can become the next great and major racing organization. (The next APBA). More power to them. Maybe they will accomplish something the rest of us haven't been able to. (Big money major sponsors, for one). Maybe they will rekindle the spark of enthusiasm for boat racing and hoards of new people will come out of the woodwork and become famous boat racers. Maybe they will find a way to get around 2006 EPA and find new motors for us to run. Hat's off if they can do that.
8. In the interim, let's just realize that this was a low nationals for AOF and understand the reasons. Then, use AOF for what it is intended for. Once the cooperation between AOF and APBA is established and understood, I think that then boat racing can grow. I believe then that some of the issue brought forth in the thread, "Problem Solving 101" can be realized by implementing them in AOF first. In fact, as I read that thread, I just keep saying, "Wow, what they want to do (combining classes, etc) is already implemented in AOF!"
9. In the problem solving thread, Ed, you mentioned more local racing. I cheered when I saw that post. My contention is that we will never grow our sport UNLESS we have some "local track racing." There are sites in which this can be done. Local racing brings us new racers through exposure. At our local dirt track, we know that every Thursday evening we can go and have a good time. Many of those drivers then move on up to the more local NASCAR tracks, and who knows one in a million is going to make the big time. But it all started on the local, non-denominational dirt track
Well, those are my thoughts. I am not sure I am correct on any of them, but us old people have to get our two cents in there.
Connie Payn

[14-H]

AOF vs. NBRA

I was just wondering what occured in AOF that spawned the creation of NBRA. Obviously, the break has created a decrease in race participation. I appreciate Connie's comments. I too agree that AOF and APBA are not in competition with each other. Ed.

[Art K]

Nbra

Connie had some good thoughts. But I must challenge one,NBRA has no thoughts of challenging APBA. We are content to run 16 classes of MOD & Stock combined classes. Our mission statement reads. The purpose of the NBRA is to actively promote the sport of Mod & Stock outboard racing by encouraging & advancing safety,increasing public awarenessof the sport, and expanding its competition. We have no desire to bring in any other divisions,were going to stick with what we have. It is what we do best. Do we think we can get a national type sponsor? I have my doubts. But we have members who are trying. We did have sucsess on the local level, most of the races this year paid prize money, and some of them were exceptional. At this time next year looks even better.
I do agree with Connie we need grass root racing, NBRA & AOF can supply this. Can there be a merger? I doubt it. Larry McAfee suggests shutting down both, and starting over. I do not think that could happen for 05 but could be worked on for 06. But in order for this to happen I think all of the old leadership will have to step aside and not interfere and the new blood work it out.That includes myself Joe, Mardell, Tony, Rod, Connie. I do think Larry`s idea has merit and should be pursued. But this is just my personal opinion and not the official position of NBRA.
Art K

[Dave M]

It is true.

Ed, better off to leave why the split happened and move forward. There was to many people involved in that and we don't need to re-hash all the name-calling, and bad things that happened. It is in the past; let it go, move forward.

I think what the AOF is doing is great. I also think what the NBRA is doing is great. Why do we need three sanctioning organizations ? We don't. We do need two though. I believe that both the AOF and NBRA accept all three sanctioning organizations membership cards as membership status for racing under that banner.

If you research under a different thread you will find that there was supposed to be a joint Nationals in DePue IL, AOF and NBRA, on Labor Day, this is the traditional Nationals date for AOF. I missed more than one first day of school because of this in my young days. Since this did not happen many were pissed and did not attend this late race date. For me I simply did not have the equipment to attend, otherwise I would have been there.

I think I t was awesome that some hardcore APBA folks went to this race a supported it. It truly shows we can all get along if we just shut out mouths.

[Kevin Martin]

Art

you folks aren't interested in the pro boats?? i'm fine with that but the nbra club out here runs them, is there a future for pro boats in your group at a local or national level?? thanks in advance kevin amrtin

[Bill Huson]

Pro boats . . .

Art: I seem to recall from my few turns as ref for AOF races that the low cost of insuring a race was based on a less than 85 MPH (?) top speed. But the AOF didn't seem all that picky about what was on the schedule and I believe several of our east coast AOF races ran 250/350 ccH.

[YankeeRacing]

The most fun in my looong boat racing career has been the last four. I have been associated with no one group. I have tried to help out anyone that asked. I hope I was some help to Tony, Ed and Todd Brinkman. The biggest lesson I have learned in this time is that us old phearts (new word, I just made up; it's old farts with a lot of boat racing heart), need to pass the torch. So, yes, Art, I agree with you and Larry McAfee. Us phearts should step aside and let the Kevin Martins and Dan Crummets run the show as far as AOF and NBRA goes. Let these guys figure it out. We all know what APBA is about because we are all members and have been for years. AOF was incorporated as a Federation in which the local clubs had more authority, and when incorporated in 1971 the divisions were mod, pleasure boats (OPC), Drag, and PRO. No stock. However, as time progressed stock was added. Then divisions became obsolete and AOF became more of a "run what you brung, and have fun doing it." Classes are basically now divided according to speeds with stock, mod and pro running together. (I have timed a lot of races, and there really isn't that much difference in times in a lot of our clases while in competition). My take on NBRA is that it is a very strict mod/stock racing organization that, like APBA is an Association. (stricter rulebook, more national control versus club or region control). I might also add, Art, that my comment about NBRA wanting to be the next APBA came right out of the campaign speeches of a couple of your aspiring officers. Hey, I don't have a problem with it, because I have already resigned myself to passing the torch. Whatever trips their trigger, and who knows, with that much enthusiasm, they just might accomplish it.
Maybe the new blood can find a way to incorporate some of the stricter stock/mod rules with the more laid back AOF which includes stoc/mod/pro/drag, inflateables, and maybe a bass boat or two if they show up. We've got a good generation coming up who are way smarter than we ever were.
Now Bill, on the insurance thing, which always strikes a nerve with me: There was never an 85 mile rule. Two people whom I will always admire, Ron Whittaker and Dudley Malone negotiated the first AOF insurance policy, and it included things like classes, sizes of boats etc. Then I basically took over from their great foundation. At one time there was a 100 mph rule, but that worried me, as how was that to be enforced? So now, the AOF policy simply states: All boat racing. And just to add, AOF has the option of two policies. The Essex policy, which of course is just a bare bones policy, or if a club wants, they can opt for the the K and K policy, which NBRA already has. So, looks like insurance should be no problem if the two groups were to ever look at combining, and that looks like the easiest obsacle to overcome.
Old phearts forever!
Connie

[Art K]

Nbra-aof

At this time NBRA has no Pro Div. When it is run on the westcoast it is a categorized as a special event. That means no NBRA points, but the local club can offer points. Does this mean there will never be a Pro Div? If I was that interested I would have someone or a group at the NBRA meeting in St. Louis at the end of the month to do some lobbying.
Art K

[YankeeRacing]

At this time NBRA has no Pro Div. Does this mean there will never be a Pro Div? If I was that interested I would have someone or a group at the NBRA meeting in St. Louis at the end of the month to do some lobbying.
Art K

Boy, I hate showing my ingnorance in front of everyone, but the above statement inicates to me that "Probably" it is very "Possible" that Pros can be added to the NBRA lineup.
Ok, then after Pros, the next year the drags do a good lobbying job, then the next the inflatables.......
So then basically you end up with twin alternative (to APBA) sanctioning bodies. I have both the AOF and NBRA rulebooks sitting right here in front of me and really see no major (that couldn't be worked out in a day by reasonable people) differeneces EXCEPT in the technical sections. Even-up the tech sections and you have identicial twins.
So now, lets take this "what if" even one step further, to say, 5 years from now, when the participation is so low in the two organizations, or one dominates and say, AOF folds. Then, either everyone in AOF either goes exclusively to APBA or they come to NBRA. Then you even end up with the SAME clubs, people, philosophies, in NBRA. So what has been gained?
My family doesn't race anymore stock and mod, only PRO, so when Kevin Martin is ready, we will meet him in St Louie and lobby for those PRO classes. Sooner or later the two groups have to come together (Unless we do what Ron Hill suggests and put AOF under the APBA umbrella), so why not hurry up the whole process? It's inevitable. Why waste 5 valuable years?
If the split actually occured to get rid of the old phearts like Connie and Art, then we have to understand that no ONE person is that much unique. Sooner or later there's going to be another Connie with a different name, another Art without a beer belly. Heck, maybe even another Tony. (That would be a hard one to take!).
I am just not sure where we are going and why.
Sure wish though, that my daughter in law wasn't having surgery so we could go to Cambridge this week end. In other words, it should be about boat racing.
Connie

[Danny Pigott]

Noa

This Sounds Like NOA In 1970, The AM. PRO. Div. Was Big Had A Race Almost Every Weekend. Then Came The Split, AOF Was Formed An Part NOA AM PRO Div. (MOD) Went To AOF The Rest Formed The MOD. Div. In APBA. I Think They Have Been Split All This Time. Anybody Remember The Last NOA Nat`s. At Portsmouth Oh.