New C stock class proposal

[pav225]

$$$

I think the big "take away" here is that we all need to be confident in telling potential new drivers that they can buy a Y302 and be competitive out of the box. Folks who have tested multiple engines, can attest to the fact that they are all consistent and close in speed.

Yes, they should put in a 9/16" shaft (so they can borrow props from current racers), and have the gearcase shaped, but that is all they need to do.

Get them to focus on learning how to drive, changing set up, getting good starts, etc.

I think we all do racing a diservice when we tell folks they need to spend money that they don't actually need to spend.

- Mike Pavlick

[Bob Rusnak]

One aspect, Inspection. With the possible (I not completely convinced here) exception of the Sidewinders, all engines produced commercially have MFG tolerances. And these are listed in the Inspection Manual. Like it or not, I ought to be able to bring my engine up to the max tolerance if I choose to because SOME engines coming off the assembly line are already AT this dimension. Call it blueprinting or whatever. The point is, I shouldn't have to go on a hunt thru block after block trying to find an engine that has ports at the max (or min, etc) location.

And, don't stick some paragraph in there like: Must be run 'as cast', so that I can't bring my engine up to the same dimension as someone who has just won the Nats with one.

Sealed engines are NOT the answer. The logistics of such put that kind of racing in a class by itself. Don't compare SO with karts, Busch North, or NASCAR. We aint them (thankfully!!!).

So, you can talk about running an 'out-of-the-box' Yamato, but when you start hearing about this racer or that racer having an engine that really performs, you're going to be looking at where your engine is in terms of the MFG tolerance limits.

That's racing.

Alex

Sounds like MOD racing, not stock out of the box which is what the original intent of stock racing was all about......Bob

[B Walker]

The "original intent" of Stock Outboard died a miserable death as soon as people found out that the very large tolerances allowed by fishing motor manufacurers allowed for large variation on the racecourse.

The difference between my best and worst KG-4's was 5 MPH.

At that time blueprinting was the only solution to even the playing field as there were no manufacturers making a motor engineered, designed, and built for racing.

Times have changed and now there are at least 2 manufacturers making motors to very tight tolerances.

We need to change too. There is a unique opportunity to put the stock back into stock outboarding.

Just because it will be difficult is not a reason not to do it.

BW

[thepiranhabros]

Hmmmm....

Times have changed and now there are at least 2 manufacturers making motors to very tight tolerances.

We need to change too. There is a unique opportunity to put the stock back into stock outboarding.

Just because it will be difficult is not a reason not to do it.

BW

Hmmmm... You mean like, perhaps having these race engines distributed and available for sale at local marinas, where the "common man" (i.e., newbie) would be able to buy one without having to resort to a small, regional, specialized who's-who list of racers who may or may not want to sell their engine?

Nah. That sounds like horse-and-buggy thinking to me.

[ram95]

Stock means Stock specs

It's always fun to hear about the guy who blows right by everyone with an engine right out of the box. And, with the SW, all engines just-might be exactly 'on-spec' plus or minus a half-a-millionth. I think that is a great selling feature. But, for the rest of the engines out there, we have a spec sheet which we can at least build the thing to. And your cost of doing so depends upon who's doing it. In the case of the OMC 15, the Merc 15 & 25XS, or the Yamatos, there are a lot of choices. Sometimes we get what we pay for other times we don't - it's a cruel world. There are racers and no-soap racers. There are machinists who can make it look like it wasn't touched, but it matters not if it meets the dimensions on the spec sheet. That's what keeps stock, stock. The satisfaction that comes with knowing your engine is dead-nuts on the spec far outweighs wondering why your competition runs so well. Because you KNOW.... come inspection time... their stuff better be dead-nuts on as well.

That's reality, that's stock.

[B Walker]

Nah. That sounds like horse-and-buggy thinking to me.

Yeah, it does to me too

Nothing stopping you from asking your local marina to set up your rig as a floor display in the off season is there?

Have a sign on it with contact info?

There is no race anywhere for at least 2 more months but I wonder how many marinas nationwide have a racing boat display of any sort. I bet its not many.

My former High School football coach used to let me put up my 15SSR in his marina showroom in the winter. Did that for about 4 years in a row in the 1980's with my name and phone number on it. Never got a single phone call from anyone. Coach Beach told me most people said the same thing to him, "I havent seen something like that in 20 years! people still race those?" That was 25 years ago!

Future racers to be are not hanging around marinas drooling over the newest motor technology release from whatever manufacturers. That has not happened scince a 55H was just about the biggest baddest motor you could buy.

The proven formula to expose and recruit people to this unique form of motor sport is get 'em a ride, not floor displays at marinas, not billboards on the side of the road, not advertisements in the newspaper, not even a 30 min video on ESPN. All those help but getting them a ride has the highest percentage of conversion to membership.

Time to move out of 1960's thinking.

Just get em a ride!!!!!!

BW

[ram95]

A DH in every driveway

I'm with you Bill.
I'll be bringing an extra DH to every race for just that reason.

I went from a 10 foot Penn Yan with a 10 Evinrude to a D Sid with a raggedyazz 55H. I was the proverbial "newbie" at 17. Nothing like taking a drive in a D hydro to get ya hooked...... especially a Tohatsu powered O'Connor boat with power-steering!! A freaking "E" ticket. And Bill, I know that rattle-trap yer driving goes like stink and makes a wonderful sound... but, you need to take 12A out for a couple laps.

Yup... we need to get a DH in everyones driveway.

Alex

[B Walker]

I'm with you Bill.
I'll be bringing an extra DH to every race for just that reason.

I went from a 10 foot Penn Yan with a 10 Evinrude to a D Sid with a raggedyazz 55H. I was the proverbial "newbie" at 17. Nothing like taking a drive in a D hydro to get ya hooked...... especially a Tohatsu powered O'Connor boat with power-steering!! A freaking "E" ticket. And Bill, I know that rattle-trap yer driving goes like stink and makes a wonderful sound... but, you need to take 12A out for a couple laps.

Yup... we need to get a DH in everyones driveway.

Alex

Hiya Alex, If we ever met I was too young to remember but this is Brad Walker, Bills son, and I mercilessly give Dad crap about how much he has spent on his Merc 30H mods.

He could have bought at least three Y-302 mods for what he has spent to keep one average 30-H running over the last 10 years.

Dad doesnt "do" the new motors, he is as guilty as anyone of being "stuck on Mercury".

I will tell him you said "Hi" though....

Brad Walker

[thepiranhabros]

We're doing that too.

Just get em a ride!!!!!!

BW

Marine Racing Club hosted a very successful Driving School in 2010 at our Rochelle, Illinois race. Of the eight people who attended, two will definitely be racing in 2011, one is already racing in a central Illinois Antique club with aspirations of joining the Stock Outboard ranks, and one other is doing her best to get her ride together, but will more than likely borrow one for this year. I make that a 50% return, which is absolutely unheard of. (Not trying to blow our own horn; that's just how it worked out for us.)

More MRC Driving Schools were already being planned for 2011 in the middle of our first 2010 school. We have a group of smart, devoted, tireless racers who put their own rigs and gear on the line to get butts in boats. Their passion and enthusiasm for racing is second to none. (Now I am blowing our own horn.)

The object is to interest them with the talk and the promotional materials, then hook them with the ride.

[Bob Rusnak]

The "original intent" of Stock Outboard died a miserable death as soon as people found out that the very large tolerances allowed by fishing motor manufacurers allowed for large variation on the racecourse.

The difference between my best and worst KG-4's was 5 MPH.

At that time blueprinting was the only solution to even the playing field as there were no manufacturers making a motor engineered, designed, and built for racing.

Times have changed and now there are at least 2 manufacturers making motors to very tight tolerances.

We need to change too. There is a unique opportunity to put the stock back into stock outboarding.

Just because it will be difficult is not a reason not to do it.

BW

Mercury made the 20H, 30H and 55H all which could be bought from dealers ready to race. Hot Rods were also available. When Mercury came out with the conversion, that was the start of modifying engines. I could be wrong but I don't remember one being offered from the factory. The KG4 was a fishing engine with the addition of the lower unit. Again this was a mod engine. Was the KG4 H ever available to by from a dealer? The Yamoto 80, 102 etc were all completly stock and should never been allowed to modify them in any way. I remember when the Novice class started. This was great for the new comer as nothing could be done to the engine. Just too bad they had a time limit and I believe age limit for the class and was short lived. The J class was a fishing engine with a stock long lower unit. Now the J class is again modified with racing lower units, restrictor plates, etc, etc which is not a entry level class unless you have someone with a lot of experience setting it up. Seen so many frustrated kids not getting a ride because of the complex engines and set ups.

[G Stillwill]

Alex the KG-4H was a factory motor right from the dealer not much different then the fishing version other then the lower unit and carb. As far as the J class it seems to be growing in leaps and bounds now more then ever.

[Fast Jack]

Not getting ooff the beach?

BOB, I only went to 15 races last year, NEVER did I see a J driver not get off the beach. Please let me know who these Kids are so My son and I can offer them help with the Complex ( ??? ) set up . How come region 2 only has one race? if I lived in a huge state like Ny and wanted to get into racing I would be shocked that there are not more races. Shawn Cavanaugh

[BP125V]

ditto

BOB, I only went to 15 races last year, NEVER did I see a J driver not get off the beach. Please let me know who these Kids are so My son and I can offer them help with the Complex ( ??? ) set up. Shawn Cavanaugh

ALL of the J's got on plane easily this year in Region 7, hydros and ruanbouts both. Even going into a strong wind, no problem.

[Bob Rusnak]

BOB, I only went to 15 races last year, NEVER did I see a J driver not get off the beach. Please let me know who these Kids are so My son and I can offer them help with the Complex ( ??? ) set up . How come region 2 only has one race? if I lived in a huge state like Ny and wanted to get into racing I would be shocked that there are not more races. Shawn Cavanaugh

Easter Outboard Racing Club got away from APBA years ago. The sanction, insurance etc. drove us away from APBA. We got a very good rate for insurance for our local races. We had 4 races a year and with a few PRO races, Nationals, there was no more time to run in NY. We would never get anyone to travel to LI or salt water so we were on our own. Sometimes a few from Region 1 came down to have fun. I think the interest was lost by many and the ecomony did not help. What happens in region 2 I have no idea. We do not run stock any more and really do not know what races are in Region 2. My son moved to Western Pa. and my son-in law lives in Texas. I go to any races they are entered in. Maybe things have changed since I saw a J race so who these kids are I would not know any names any more. I think the last one was The Nationals at Witney Point. Anyway, my point to this thread was stock engines and why they have to be modified to race, not why there in only one race in NY.

[daveracerdsh]

New Class

I started this thread last week thinking it would sort of wind down after a few days..that has not been the case...which is a good thing. I am just blown away by the amount of info I have amassed....I am now working on the final proposal that I am going to present to the commission. I am going to do a power point display...But I am not going to go into specifics as to weights, prop height etc. I need the rest of the commission to work with their members to gauge the intrest in the class....and I need to do a lot more homework on this. I want to make dang sure that if it is adopted by the stock catagory that it will work in the long run....and be as fair as possible. The one interesting thing that I will let people know is that Ron Hill has agreed to provide identical props for the class....$100 dollars a pop. And.....he is going to donate the first 10 props at no charge. Thank you so much Ron.....If anybody has any last thoughts or ideas, don't hesitate to message me. If you wish, you can call my cell at 425 246 4710, or send me a message. Dave