New C stock class proposal

[pav225]

Food for thought...

Food for thought....

If we are talking about a new "spec class" why not take a different approach?

- Make it the new BSH class
- Complete rig for approximately $8500
- New SW20 ci engine
- 1 make of boat (preferably out of a fiberglass mold so they are all the same)
- Dewald make props like the J class

If SWs are all close on speed, props are the same, and boats are the same...it should make for a very level playing field and eliminates the need for a "claiming rule". Similar to the OPC project or even like the old IROC series for cars.

Perhaps APBA could even help fund the project.

- Mike Pavlick

[Graham 18ce]

If you want to a spec class i think you would get further ahead with a SEALED class even if you have a claiming rule. Sealed by the manufacture and have a few authorized people around the country to do standard re-work, rings, pistons, etc so you don't have to ship it cross country for new rings, etc. Seals can be numbered and posted on the APBA site or emailed to all Inspectors by the factory to be confirmed and checked at inspection at each race.

Take machanics out of it completely and you will get equal motors from the factory.
Especially when dealing with 4500 motors which are pretty even out of the box from my expereince, which is somewhat limited at this point. Why even entertain the idea of making people take them apart to try and find something more in them. That is the first problem in what is stock outboard racing, every class we have is Mod because we always change the rules to suit the pwople who machine this and plug that.
A's are almost 60 mph! OMC out of the box before blueprinting and plugging were what, 54?
As soon as people Slow the SW down, people will take them apart and make changes to it to make it faster, the rule will pass in the future to make those changes legal and then you are the same as an OMC or Yamato but your up front cost is far more...

[thepiranhabros]

You may have struck GOLD!

Food for thought....

If we are talking about a new "spec class" why not take a different approach?

- Make it the new BSH class
- Complete rig for approximately $8500
- New SW20 ci engine
- 1 make of boat (preferably out of a fiberglass mold so they are all the same)
- Dewald make props like the J class

If SWs are all close on speed, props are the same, and boats are the same...it should make for a very level playing field and eliminates the need for a "claiming rule". Similar to the OPC project or even like the old IROC series for cars.

Perhaps APBA could even help fund the project.

- Mike Pavlick

This is a GOLDEN idea! It works on every level.

• Brings in newbies in with NEW equipment.
• Solves any parity issues with the SW20 as it is its own class.
• Abundance of parts for a NEW engine.
• No worries about expensive propellers - just like the J classes.
• With all other things equal (boats, engines, propellers) it means to win in this class the onus is mostly on the driver's skills and cunning.
• Revives the BSH class and is in keeping with a simpler A, B, C, D class structure.
• REAL sponsorship potential exists with this class as it can be marketed similarly to IROC series racing or (dare I say) NASCAR (but on a much smaller scale, of course). Once the class gains buy-in from membership and gets some exposure, individual drivers could seek out local/regional sponsors, and a promotional person from APBA could take it national. Map out the real estate equally on all boats, and the cost of the space is contingent on the size of the placement (i.e., no variations on spacing would be allowed).

Good thinking, Mike!

[blueskyracer]

Food for thought....

If we are talking about a new "spec class" why not take a different approach?

- Make it the new BSH class
- Complete rig for approximately $8500
- New SW20 ci engine
- 1 make of boat (preferably out of a fiberglass mold so they are all the same)
- Dewald make props like the J class

If SWs are all close on speed, props are the same, and boats are the same...it should make for a very level playing field and eliminates the need for a "claiming rule". Similar to the OPC project or even like the old IROC series for cars.

Perhaps APBA could even help fund the project.

- Mike Pavlick

Its a good idea but I think since cost is always a factor you could save $2000 by going with a Yamato 302 pure stock engine

[Boatracer4fun]

Its a good idea but I think since cost is always a factor you could save $2000 by going with a Yamato 302 pure stock engine

I like the idea.

Add, Im not loaded but i have found in my yours that ANYTHING with the word RACING is expensive.

Anytime a newbie gets into anything racing, its sticker shock. Yes you can by old hammy down stuff, but then you spend twice as much becuase you soon find out to be competitve you need more or better.

Think class structure is more important now then trying to figure out how to make another class.

Im done internet racing for the day....

[nicf14]

This new class sounds like a great idea. The problem is it already exists in Real OSY400. Let's not reinvent the wheel just run the class like the rest of the world already does. There is no need for new rules adopt the UIM rules that are all ready in place. It works! They have been doing it for years.

[propnuts]

Not really

For starters they don't all run the same hull, and as far as I know they don't run a spec prop. Add in the fact that the UIM spec hulls tend to cost a lot, and it's a swing and a miss on all counts. Not even close to what is being proposed.

This new class sounds like a great idea. The problem is it already exists in Real OSY400. Let's not reinvent the wheel just run the class like the rest of the world already does. There is no need for new rules adopt the UIM rules that are all ready in place. It works! They have been doing it for years.

[thepiranhabros]

Its a good idea but I think since cost is always a factor you could save $2000 by going with a Yamato 302 pure stock engine

I agree about the cost, and saving a couple thousand dollars is very enticing. But by using the SW20, you alleviate the possibility of Y-80s and Y-102s being written into the rules at a later date thus diluting the field. Plus, it gives the spotlight of a totally independent class to the Sidewinder, which could be great for their marketing efforts.

But what do I know? My opinions are "practically irrelevant."

[JP53-N]

I think it is a great idea. Take it a step further and have sealed powerheads and sealed complete engines. This way, if someone has a hot rod already, they can just buy a powerhead and save 2G's.

Safe, close, exciting racing that is easy to understand and watch for the spectators. That's thinking into the future!

[Bob Rusnak]

This new class sounds like a great idea. The problem is it already exists in Real OSY400. Let's not reinvent the wheel just run the class like the rest of the world already does. There is no need for new rules adopt the UIM rules that are all ready in place. It works! They have been doing it for years.

Can any one explain why we have UIM OSY and USA OSY? Also why does any Yamoto Stock engine have to be modified to race in the US? I remember when I bought a engine and was told I have to modify the lower unit. Does not seem like stock to me. Just curious after reading all of these responses. ...Bob N-96

[daveracerdsh]

Proposal

I want to personally thank everybody for their input on this, both positive and negative. I am sometimes hesitant to post on Hydroracer...but this time I got so much good info it was worth it. See some of you in Detroit!

[Ron Hill]

Powerheads Would Be Enough...

I think it is a great idea. Take it a step further and have sealed powerheads and sealed complete engines. This way, if someone has a hot rod already, they can just buy a powerhead and save 2G's.

Safe, close, exciting racing that is easy to understand and watch for the spectators. That's thinking into the future!

Do you have a suggested person to "SEAL" the powerheads?

I have personal knowledge that Ron Anderson's shop, in Seattle, Washington, has an excellent DYNO. EACH MOTOR COULD BE SEALED, DATED AND SERIALIZED. Ron is very busy, I've heard and might not be able to do this.

John's Custom Marine, in Stanton, CA, has one of OMC's dynos and could build motors, dyno them and seal them. I'm not sure they'd want the business.

Dave Bushm in Lake Havasu City, builds some mean V-6 outboards and knows what makes outboards run. He could build sealed motors. Again, he might not interested...

To me, as a man whose dad build him every motor, would like to think, he could write a check and buy a good motor....Not an unlimited amount, be an honest number...

We build our own motors, and always have. We sell them to someone and they say, "That was junk..." Huh? We won the race before we sold it to you!!!!

I have not desire to build motors for people. This takes a certain breed, and I'm not one...

But SEALED motors, with a claimer price would be something I could buy into!

[dsprint2000]

At $8500, you will not get a bunch of new people in the sport to run at most 20-min a day on the water.

David

[Tim Kurcz]

Growing the sport

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ky%C5%8Dtei

It's been interesting to follow ideas developing for "stock" outboard which today is really "mod" outboard without pipes. APBA had the program right in the '50's with sealed stock engines NO power head blueprinting, NO gearcase mods, NO parts other than those available at the dealer. Simple, but NOT inexpensive (NO form of racing sport is cheap).

Competitiveness depended more on boat design, propellers, and driving technique than engine mods. By 1972, the first thing I was taught in SO is that "cheaters always win and winners always cheat". Inspectors could be fooled into passing a blueprinted engine with a "factory" seal. By that time, parts changing formulas had been worked out and stealthy engine "mods" had taken root mostly due to Mercury's 10-year parts obsolescence policy. Only those connected to an NOS "stash" could make a runner. This is what ultimately led to "must blueprint" to be competitive in classes today.

The latest discussion backs into the blueprint for Japanese Paramutuel racing. If you really want to drive this sport, the concept of "identical" rigs drawn by lottery at the race site might be considered. Knowing you'd have to compete against your own rig would most certainly take the incentive out of cheating. Thinking one step further; make it a gambling sport, and the public, TV (at least cable), sponsors, and $$$ would be drawn in. Follow the above link for a little definition.

The new Sidewinder or Tohatsu, selected boat and prop would do it. All must be identical, BONE stock, easy to inspect, and parts must be readily available. CNC manufacturing technology makes identical possible, CMM measurement technology keeps it legal. ANY infractions like a file mark, chamfer, blasting, evidence of any non-factory milling, turning, or non-standard parts would cause immediate suspension.

But let's face it; few racers (if any) want to obsolete their equipment. You've got a real challenge to keep the sport alive, simple (ABCD classes), competitive, and attractive to recruits.

In your soon-to-be decision making PLEASE consider the incredible investment by guys like Sid Bass and Ron Selewach. They've spent BOATLOADS of their personal time and wealth to bring YOU new engines that have met every manner of resistance to acceptance. If it weren't for their love of the sport you'd have NO new engines at all. You should thank your lucky stars these guys have seen fit to invest, embrace their engines, build classes around them, and make the sport simple again. KISS. Good luck!

Tim

[blueskyracer]

Very well said Tim. It is to bad that all of the posts made recently to our web site will be falling on deaf ears. There are to many special interest to allow for any change.

If you want a prime example look at the donation request we just made to hopefully get the "T" shirts made that were designed last year. Yes a few folks have helped out and we appreciate it but if this simple request gets nowhere how do these same folks expect to accomplish big change at the national meeting!

Will not happen. They will pass some more meaningless rules that make it harder on the new folks. Speaking of rules has anyone thought about changing the rule book so that if you are interested in say CSH you could turn to that specific section and find out the weight, height,and engine specs in one spot instead of having to look thru the whole book 3 or 4 times to get this info. That would be a bizzar concept.

And then Tim brings up the idea of Stock. It would be nice to buy a motor say like you get from Ric Montoya for $2200 and that was all you had to do. Put on you prop of choice and go racing. But no you have to figure out a way to safely crate up the motor and ship it of to get reworked for another $1000. It has now become "Mod with out the pipes" as Tim said. I guess that is why I now run Mod. If you can't beat them why not join them.

I guess I could not sit back anymore. I am done but this is just my opservations for the past three years.