New C stock class proposal

[bill boyes]

Seems to me we are trying pare down the classes and this adds another one. Maybe the time we should have done this is with the 302 and the C2 class ten years ago.

[Big Don]

I like the general idea…I’m just not sure on the whole claiming thing. Just make the penalty really stiff if you get caught machining. I think we need an inexpensive class for people to get into. Where they don’t need to own 40 propellers (I personally only own 2 but I have heard some of you people have more than me) or have to own several engines… once they learn to drive they can be competitive.

Then if we would start working on OSY400 to make it a true UIM class so we can start competing with other countries…. That person could make the jump to that class and not have to buy a new engine.

[B Walker]

If I raced PRO I would be a huge supporter of the UIM rules for OSY-400. The more I learn about the way UIM runs it the more I like.

Significant side impact specifications, reasonable tech specs on motors and a weight specification for boat motor and driver.

I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong but I am pretty sure OSY-400 is the most popular outboard racing class in the world.

BW

[ricochet112]

If I raced PRO I would be a huge supporter of the UIM rules for OSY-400. The more I learn about the way UIM runs it the more I like.

Significant side impact specifications, reasonable tech specs on motors and a weight specification for boat motor and driver.
I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong but I am pretty sure OSY-400 is the most popular outboard racing class in the world.

BW

That's why PRO will never go for it...sad.

[Racerkyle20]

If I raced PRO I would be a huge supporter of the UIM rules for OSY-400. The more I learn about the way UIM runs it the more I like.

Significant side impact specifications, reasonable tech specs on motors and a weight specification for boat motor and driver.

I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong but I am pretty sure OSY-400 is the most popular outboard racing class in the world.

BW

I think the UIM OSY is closer in APBA than people realize. Up in the NE (maine, boston, etc) they do a UIM style race most weekends; aka 6 laps with Lamans starts. At the end of the race day. No apba points obviously, but apparetely it is well received by on lookers.

Back to point: I feel this claiming propsal could go well with PRO osy. If the pro's would ever make the OSY class UIM comparable then this claiming rule could work better. Heres my thinking...

OSY in Europe is run with a true stock yamato motor. No reworks to lower unit, or any part of the motor.

The new driver would claim an engine that is truely on the level of other motors and doesn't have to spend more money tweeking it. If they choose they can then spend more time/money on props. So the person that gets their motor claimed would call Ricky and order a new engine and be right back to racing the next weekend. The cost for engine would only be what Ricky charges ($2100 about). Thus lowering the total cost for new driver/driver that got claimed and making it easy for somone to start racing. Then do Lemans starts to boot. Sounds like a class i would want to race!

[daveracerdsh]

Proposal

I am meeting with Ric Montoya, Ric Sanstrom, and hopefully Kyle Bahl to work out the details of my idea. Hopefully, this will happen this thursday. If any of you have final thoughts/ideas or concerns, let me know by then. Like I said in an earlier post, you can e mail me ( I prefer Daveracerdsh@aol.com)..call me at 425 246 4710...or put your thoughts here on hydroracer. Again, nothing we do as a commission will please everybody. And I do understand people's concerns about bringing in a new class when we are looking to possibly get rid of a few classes. But like I have said....and I am certainly not the only person that has brought this up, we need to remove the barriers to new people that want to get into the sport, as we all keep those we already have. Pretty simple stuff. I hope we do not nit pic this proposal to death in Detroit....of course it will not be perfect, and everybody is of course entitled to their own opinion on what works best for the sport we all love. As I stated in my first post, we sometimes need to look outside the box. I honestly think this would work well...what have we honestly got to lose? Every other racing organization I can think of does it....and it works. It is time for Stock Outboarding to do the same. Dave

[Greg Jacobsen]

Claiming Rule

Dave,

Checked with the Schuberts on how the claiming rule has worked for them with the "Tru-Hulls". The claiming rule is for the Motor, Prop and Engine Bracket. It is $2,750 for all three parts and you can only claim one of the top three positions. Since 2002 they have had 5 or 6 motors claimed - however none in the last three years. They told me that all the participants have "figured it out" - they know if they build a "Special Motor" or prop that it will get claimed - so why bother. At this point they have about 20 boats - and most everyone runs about the same motor and prop. The class next season is going to have another 3 or 4 new faces and has expanded to TN. The fact of the mater is that if you have a good and effective claiming rule - it will probably never be used.

I really like your idea.

Greg Jacobsen

[reed28n]

Universal class?

OSY400 or CSH call it want you want.....why have two of pretty much the same class in APBA make it all the same....

Claiming? go for it!

[Ron Hill]

Need More Than Claiming....

I spent all day talking Boat Race Rules....Actually, rules for the Blue Water Resort and Casino 300. Our official rules meeting is January 16th, but this was a "little meeting of the minds...."

With Parker we really have two well defined groups..Outboards and Inboards. And there is no real love lost between the two......

With OUTBOARDS, I'd like to think we are all in it to have fun.

One thing Jake failed to mention about Tri Hulls, is they really have no rules on their motors except V-4's....He did say, "They figured it out" on the motors and don't need a claimer.

California's best racing days, in my opinon, was when you sent your "D" Motor to Quincy and "QUINCY" made it run...$400-$450 and the sum ***** ran fast, just like everyone else's.

Maybe, forget "STOCK" and say, "302 Yamato, let's race." One car, exhaust in the leg....Build your motr...Calimer price of??????($1,500) for a powerhead...

We are racing COR 2.0...We have: 1. 1,550 over all weigth. 2. 1 INCH prop shaft beleow the bottom 3.. 26 CC head, 2.0 liter Merc. 4. 1 3/4 inch carbs...

Easy to inspect:

1. weight boat
2. 2.0 block
3. 26 CC heads
4. Carb size
5. I inch below the bottom

We are talking $4,000 claimer price on the motor! (Powerhead only).

[daveracerdsh]

props

Ron..would you give me a call asap? 425 246 4710. thank u

[Ron Hill]

Guedo...You Are One of the Best...

Not to be a complete smart-a$$, but I like to think everything I run is "claim-able". For the right price, everything is always for sale; what do you want to buy?

Correct me if I am wrong, but when the 45s were running a series in the early 90's, Gordie Miller's son came over to the Tri-cities, and Montoya paid him in 100's for the motor he smoked everybody with. That's how the "rest" of the field figured out how he was going so fast.

A claiming rule is not as much about the whole field as it is still about the man with the desire to go the fastest.

I hope this thread isn't about changing the existing classes.

I will say this, I feel NASCAR, IRL and NHRA are wrong to not have overall weights.

In 1967, I ran Max McPeek's 90 pound Desilva to make weight in ARR. I weighted 260 with Jacket and helmet at the time. I held the kilo record for the class. I finsihed second at DePue 1967 in ARR. When the Pro Division dropped overall weights they lost me.

Our COR 2.0 class had a weight of 1325 because the scale couln not handle the extra weight of the driver. One of my drivers, weighs 350 and the other one weight 125....

We changed the weight to 1550 lbs, , boat, motor and driver....

After a San Diego race in 1965, after winning C Runabout, D Runabout, C Hydro and D Hydro....(We only ran J runabout, A Runabout, B Runabout, A Hydro, B Hydro and 36...) Winning 4 of the ten classes I realize winning was hard for people who didn't have adad that work 24-7 on his race boats and for people that didn't have Ronnie Hill driving for them...

We need to make it very easy for NEW PEOPLE....That may mean free entry fees. Free memberships...Maybe a Historical Society Grant for prize money for a NEW CLASS!

To put "SPORT" in this class....I would favor adding 10 pounds to a boat after each win....as soon as you got a second, the weight could be removed...

We once paid $500 to the third place finisher, wildest race we eave had.....trying like hell to get third...

[daveracerdsh]

Existing classes

This new class proposal will do nothing to change existing classes...I hope people have the foresight to see this. If anything, it will serve as a feeder class to other (hopefully) stock classes. And...there is nothing that I am going to propose that will keep the racer in this class (restricted C hydro) from stepping up and running C stock, 20 SS, OSY, etc with the same equipment he/she runs in my (APBA's) new class. Thanx for the info Ron...like I said...please please give me a call before Thursday evening. An up to my neck in controversy Dave Anderson

[glen wesanko]

New C stock class

As a relative " newby " in the boat racing hobby I can personally sympathize with the frustration factor of competing in a highly competitive class such as csh. I think having a " prop draw " much the same way as the J class would be the absolute simplest method of levelling the playing field if in fact this is the goal. Let's be honest, after the first turn the fastest wheel has a huge advantage every time.I know this is racing, but it is called "stock outboard" and I believe the intent was to provide an affordable and competitive form of racing that would be attractive to the novice entrant.Now I'm debating whether to send off the power head of my "new" 302 to one of the "gurus" back east to have it "brought up to spec" Just as a side note I brought a friend to a race last season to watch and help pit.He was really impressed with the enthusiasum and organization but did comment on the way home that for what I spend for a weekend racing, ($700) combined with the driving (4-6 hrs each way) and the actual time on the water (20 min) it just did'nt make sense from a cost/benefit analysis. He goes out all day on his dirt bike for $25 ! I plan to keep racing because of the people and the fun even if it doesn't make sense.I'll be driving like hell in 5th place,not just going for a boat ride ! Best wishes to all my racing friends. JGW

[B Walker]

Glen, did you get him a ride?

I am betting no cuz if he had he might have seen the cost benefit.

In my experience once they have gotten a ride it is all over, they are hooked.

Let me know....

Brad

[reed28n]

plainly stated

As a relative " newby " in the boat racing hobby I can personally sympathize with the frustration factor of competing in a highly competitive class such as csh. I think having a " prop draw " much the same way as the J class would be the absolute simplest method of levelling the playing field if in fact this is the goal. Let's be honest, after the first turn the fastest wheel has a huge advantage every time.I know this is racing, but it is called "stock outboard" and I believe the intent was to provide an affordable and competitive form of racing that would be attractive to the novice entrant.Now I'm debating whether to send off the power head of my "new" 302 to one of the "gurus" back east to have it "brought up to spec" Just as a side note I brought a friend to a race last season to watch and help pit.He was really impressed with the enthusiasum and organization but did comment on the way home that for what I spend for a weekend racing, ($700) combined with the driving (4-6 hrs each way) and the actual time on the water (20 min) it just did'nt make sense from a cost/benefit analysis. He goes out all day on his dirt bike for $25 ! I plan to keep racing because of the people and the fun even if it doesn't make sense.I'll be driving like hell in 5th place,not just going for a boat ride ! Best wishes to all my racing friends. JGW

Glen, you touched on a couple reasons to support the newer motors and fewer classes. If everyone has the same equipment in a class ( and I would argue there is less disparity in all 302 motors..... motor to motor) the racing would be closer. There is no substitute for testing props and set ups but racing would be closer.

If we had fewer classes you could get more heats or more races with the same equipment. Even if it cost another $20 for entry fees your cost/benefit is much higher. Would you spend $720 for twice the water time you get at $700 ? I think we all would..

Thanks for sticking it out......