New C stock class proposal

[daveracerdsh]

I feel that is is time to start thinking outside the box when it comes to Stock Outboard hydroplane racing. This may seem like a strange time to be proposing a new class, as there is going to be heated discussion at the upcoming meeting on eliminating classes, and, I am wondering if I am doing the right thing by posting this on Hydroracer, but here goes: As a group, both racers, officials, and so on down the line, all care a great deal about the sport we all seem to love. However, and I am just as guilty as every other racer, we tend to look at our own best intrests over the intrests of other racers...it is human nature to be that way. That being said, Stock outboarding in my opinion we be well served to start a new class called "Restricted C stock Hydro" The motor is a box stock 302, just like it comes from Ric Montoya.....the prop are identical three blades from a prop maker....does not really matter who that is...but like the J props they will all be the same....the boat is a C stock hydro, with certain minimum and maximum dimensions, there would of course be a minimum age, say for the sake of argument 15, and you could run it as long as you want....30 years if you feel like it. But...and here is what makes it special....there is a claiming rule on both the prop and the motor. This takes any incentive out of doing machine work on motor...as well as spending a ton of money on props. Here is what would happen....let's say I go out against 5 other racers and win all of my heats....a fellow racer could walk up to me, and at a set price, (2500 or something similar) claim my motor. Same thing goes with the prop. As an example, SCCA, the sanctioning body for car racing has several spec classes....which are very popular. One of the most popular is the Mazda Miata....you buy a cheap one, put a roll cage in it, and so on down the line, and go racing. For the sake of time I am not going to go into more detail in this post...I will have more info at the national meeting. Who would want to race this class? I think lots of people would...think about it...the least expensive motor to buy "new" (Yamato 302") also has in my opinion the best and hardest drivers in Stock racing.....how many new drivers purchase a rig, race for a few years...only win if there are a lot of gun jumpers...and give up after a few years? I can off the top of my head name at least 10 from SOA that is applies to over the past few years....also...how bout dads of J drivers or other parents that want to race, but spend the majority of their time on their kid's equipment? I feel that there would be a large market for this class.....it would truly be a "drivers" class. Other forms of racing do it, why can't we? On a closing note.....I do understand that some racers do not spend a lot of money on machine work on motors. This is not going to be a pissing match on that issue. What I am looking for is ideas on how to make it work. You can either leave me a message here, call my cell at 425 246 4710, or my new e mail address: Daveracerdsh@aol.com. See you all in Detroit.

[blueskyracer]

I really like the STOCK motor concept. That is what the class should be about. You can get a stock motor from Ric for $2100 but with all the mods allowed you pay another $800-$1000 for race ready. The only thing I think should be an option is the 9/16 shaft. Then you can use any prop out there with a bushing.

As far as claiming I guess the tranfer of large amounts of cash would be my issue. Plastic or cash no checks.

[daveracerdsh]

C restricted hydro

Thanks Mike..I did not think about the shaft size on the 302. We would either have to have the motor sealed or do the claim....We should have started doing this years ago with all new motors. If memory serves me correct, that was proposed when the new 44XS came out in 86. I could be mistaken on this though....what I posted here was a very rough draft. I am, as I type this, downloading info from other forms of racing to see how spec classes work. If I am not beaten down to much in the thread I will post what I find. I sure hope people support this idea....we need to remove the barriers to new people getting into racing, as well as keeping those few we have. Dave Racer.

[daveracerdsh]

new class

Valid points. This is info I need to hear/know before I make my proposal. Again, other forms of racing do it....why can't we? There is nothing to stop you from putting new rings in your motor if there is a claiming rule. I am still gathering info on this....and I would bet that if it does happen it will not be perfect. So be it.

[dwestby]

Sounds like the novies 80 class Yamato 80 claimer motor but with the brass two blade prop . the prop stayed with the owner and the motor could be claimed. Sold alot of y 80 motor and it was a great class. the motor were sold on the spot as is. Dave I might be wrong on this part but I think one in R 10 though it would be better for the sport if certain changes be legal to do to the motor so here we are. I will talk to cheney he raced that class back in the day. when he was a kid that new every thing. GOOD Idea but something never change

[daveracerdsh]

I was not aware that this has been done before in stock racing.....I seem to remember a class called Novice 350 back in the day that was similar to what I am proposing, but if memory serves me correct it was a pro class. Thanx for the info Dennis. Oh ya...we are putting a D stock class together for Indio this spring...hope your rig can make it. Dave

[1100-one]

You are correct this was done in the Novice 350 class back in the day

[daveracerdsh]

Novice 350

Where could I find info on the class? Was it a UIM thing or APBA? Dave

[1100-one]

Dave,
What kind of info are you looking for. Rick Montoya would be one who would probably know more on the subject.

[daveracerdsh]

Ric and I have talked quite a bit about my proposal. I will give him a shout in a day or two. Dave

[1100-one]

Sending you a PM

[B Walker]

There has to be a head spec.

The head dimension varies greatly on the reconditioned 302's

Ask Ric about the "Mt Fuji" head.

If this happened I would get one or two.

ANd how about it for runabout with the old ABCD dimensions please?

BW

[Fast Jack]

wont work..

If I had my motor claimed at a race it could take weeks or longer to get another motor and prop .. I could miss several races waiting for replacements ... If a club is interested in this .. have 6 racers pay 2800.00 up front---- and the motors would be drawn at a race from a club lock up , raced and returned ... wont work -- no one would come up with the $$$ and motors would not be returned as raced .. carb settings changed ... timing off... Apba has been trying to do a sprc class for years. has not happened yet.. This is racing !!if you cant afford it , dont --- if you cant make something run perhaps this is not your sport.. God knows I cant play basketball --so I dont.

[B Walker]

In karting the claiming rule also includes a motor swap between the claimer and the claimee.

This further lowers the incentive for people to do anything to their motors and solves the problem of motor availability for a replacement motor for the claimee.

Here is how it works in karting: someone pays 1000 cash to the owner of the engine being claimed and provides a replacement motor as a swap.

There is some other minor details to the karting rules but there is no reason it cant work in Stock Outboard

BW

[Mrs blueskyracer]

In karting the claiming rule also includes a motor swap between the claimer and the claimee.

This further lowers the incentive for people to do anything to their motors and solves the problem of motor availability for a replacement motor for the claimee.

Here is how it works in karting: someone pays 1000 cash to the owner of the engine being claimed and provides a replacement motor as a swap.

There is some other minor details to the karting rules but there is no reason it cant work in Stock Outboard

BW

Wouldn't something like this work, say in a claim a motor swap and $500.00.

We need to keep in affordable but allow just enough funds for an allowable motor rebuild to replace parts are damaged by wear and tear or abuse.

Perhaps Ric could put together an agreed upon "rebuild" kit for the class, price it and use that as the $$$ amount for the claim. Everyone would have access to exactly the same stuff for the class. The can choose to rebuild the swap motor after theirs has been claimed or not and keep the cash.

Everyone would always come away with a motor, and the ability to "rebuild" it to the required specs. If they went above and beyond like was said earlier they aren't going to gain anything when it is claimed.

And you know it isn't necessary to claim a motor, it's just always an option. The thorobred racing industry has done this for years.