What happened to boat racing since 1956?

[Popa Sam]

OPC 3/4 mile record course:

Wheatland looks like a perfect place for a OPC 3/4 mile record course. The course has 1880' straight-a-ways with 90 degree turns 100' apart. Like many times before APBA "missed the bus". Lucas expressed an interest in boat racing in 2003. Many organizations were contacted by Lucas. The only people that showed interest were Drag Racing promoters.

[HRTV]

Japan - all the same motor model boat and propeller.

Stadium Racing - spectators get the best seats and the best spot on the beach

Location, Location, Location - enough said

Short program - in this day and age you can't keep people's (spectators) attention for more than 3 or 4 hours. Families are too busy.

APBA - Club vs. Promoter - can we talk about Nationals revenue? The US Title Series to my knowledge promote a handful of races. Stock has a cluster of clubs competing for the same racers to attend their races. Local racing is fun, but APBA should be involved to the point where races do not conflict to boost racer attendance.

Nationals - APBA should host all of the nationals competitions at an APBA owned central site. APBA should benefit from the profit of an APBA Nationals in any category. Local clubs hosting the Nationals has worked for years for that specific event.

A nationals event can be very profitable. Let’s take Wakefield for a moment, not to pick on them, but if The Wakefield race committee makes $20,000 profit for all of their hard work where does that money go? Do they sit on their fat bank account and wait for the Stock and Mod commission to bless them with another event in 5 yrs? Or does the money go to promote local racing within Region 7? How does that benefit APBA across America?

APBA should be promoting series racing and picking a national platform of classes.

This is not a popular view and would never get off the ground in our perfect democracy. APBA doesn't have a money problem, we don't have an equipment problem.......we have an identity problem.

Without exposure and getting product in front of people we will never get new racers to join the party.

APBA is a club. NAACAR is a business.

That’s it all in a very brief summary case closed! Now what? All of the points above should have been covered and implemented during the prime years when times where good.

I guess there is nothing left to say….

[reed28n]

Fear of losing one member

That’s it all in a very brief summary case closed! Now what? All of the points above should have been covered and implemented during the prime years when times where good.

I guess there is nothing left to say….

We have been idling along for 20 years. Rentention of new drivers is difficult at best. The hard core families keep racing but some of those hard core families look back and want what we used to have in the early 70's.

We may never have that again and we won't unless we are willing to make changes to move forward.

Mid 70's we started to get off track introducing new classes rather than keeping classes and introducing new motors then scheduling a phase out of old power units.

While I agree with Dean's idea to get back to our core A,B,C,D.....I don't think matching all of the current power units to those classes is the answer. Handicapping successful classes with struggling motors.

We should decide what we want our power units to be for the future. Put those motors in a class and make that the National platform. One maybe two choices per class. Spend our resources to help national racers upgrade their power units to avoid a scheduled phase out of their current motor. Racers will realize the sooner they get the motor of choice the sooner they will compete for titles. If they are not concerned about competing for national high points and national titles or even racing outside their region then why can't they have the motor they want as a local class?

This is just the Stock category, I think other categories have similar issues.

While we protect the motors we have in effort to slow our decline in membership, or decline keeps coming. We don't change anything and the decline keeps coming.

Maybe that racer that has two or three classes has to consolidate classes to pool team resources to aquire new equipment......

Views like this get peoples fur up and they feel under attack. We have too many racers too close to the problem to acknowledge credible solutions.

[B1PRORACER]

What is different from 1956?

What is different from 1956?

For one thing, there is a lot more to do in today’s world…. Back “in-the-day” they had racing for go karts, motorcycles, cars and of course they had our boats. There wasn’t the number of TV channels back then. No video games… It doesn’t seem like today’s young people venture into the outdoors very often, nor do they seem to have the same interest in engines or going fast.

Another change in our sport is the lack of coverage. Outboard racing in 1956 was wonderfully covered by Hank Bowman’s magazines. Magazines that could have been purchased all over the country…. I wonder how many people got interested in our sport by looking through one of these magazines? Checking out the photos and wishing they could race!

I wonder how many people would get involved in outboard racing if they just knew something about it? What if every news stand across the country sold a modern version of Speed & Spray magazine. What if every city newspaper across the country covered outboard racing highlights and posted the race winners (this happened in the 1930’s because of Randolph Hearst)? If they had the race of the week on network TV? The knowledge of our sport by a large number of the population would help a lot. The more people who know about our sport, the more of the low % of the population will turn out. Our driver base would increase!

The 1950’s were the second time that outboard racing became a fad. It involved a bigger than normal amount of the American population (the first outboard racing fad occurred in 1928-29). During these periods, outboard racing seemed to attract the imagination of a lot of people. Interest in our sport couldn’t have been higher. It is no surprise that these two time periods also were ones of relative high disposable income. There is a correlation between the strength of the economy and the ability for some people to participate. Unfortunately, this is not a particularly good economic time. If we could somehow make the average person aware of our sport, then we would have more racers. For example: if .01% of those people who know about outboard racing will actually try the sport, then the more people who know about it, the more people will do it!

Imagine if Tom Brady or Brad Pitt raced a CSH! The amount of coverage that we would get from that would be unbelievable! It would be a great way for the general public to learn about outboard racing!

As far as class reductions and consolidation is concerned perhaps there is another perspective. Try to “think outside the box” a little…. Perhaps the classes that we have available are just fine. The problem is that we just don’t have enough people doing the racing!

[csh12M]

Wow

NBRA should have an announcement on this very thing in the next couple of days!!!!!!!!

Kudos to NBRA if they pull that off first. APBA should be ashamed for missing the boat if it was that easy.

If NBRA gets a race at the Lucas Oil Stadium I will be there. If for no other reason that to support your efforts and check out a cool looking venue!

Good luck!, a potential new NBRA member.

Dean
12M

[Ron Hill]

Good Post....

What is different from 1956?

For one thing, there is a lot more to do in today’s world…. Back “in-the-day” they had racing for go karts, motorcycles, cars and of course they had our boats. There wasn’t the number of TV channels back then. No video games… It doesn’t seem like today’s young people venture into the outdoors very often, nor do they seem to have the same interest in engines or going fast.

Another change in our sport is the lack of coverage. Outboard racing in 1956 was wonderfully covered by Hank Bowman’s magazines. Magazines that could have been purchased all over the country…. I wonder how many people got interested in our sport by looking through one of these magazines? Checking out the photos and wishing they could race!

I wonder how many people would get involved in outboard racing if they just knew something about it? What if every news stand across the country sold a modern version of Speed & Spray magazine. What if every city newspaper across the country covered outboard racing highlights and posted the race winners (this happened in the 1930’s because of Randolph Hearst)? If they had the race of the week on network TV? The knowledge of our sport by a large number of the population would help a lot. The more people who know about our sport, the more of the low % of the population will turn out. Our driver base would increase!

The 1950’s were the second time that outboard racing became a fad. It involved a bigger than normal amount of the American population (the first outboard racing fad occurred in 1928-29). During these periods, outboard racing seemed to attract the imagination of a lot of people. Interest in our sport couldn’t have been higher. It is no surprise that these two time periods also were ones of relative high disposable income. There is a correlation between the strength of the economy and the ability for some people to participate. Unfortunately, this is not a particularly good economic time. If we could somehow make the average person aware of our sport, then we would have more racers. For example: if .01% of those people who know about outboard racing will actually try the sport, then the more people who know about it, the more people will do it!

Imagine if Tom Brady or Brad Pitt raced a CSH! The amount of coverage that we would get from that would be unbelievable! It would be a great way for the general public to learn about outboard racing!

As far as class reductions and consolidation is concerned perhaps there is another perspective. Try to “think outside the box” a little…. Perhaps the classes that we have available are just fine. The problem is that we just don’t have enough people doing the racing!

Though I cut my teeth on the steeringwheel of my dad's C Racing Runabout, at 7 and half years of age, I visited my aunt in Vegas for a week. One day we visited a drug store to look for magazines. She bought me a Boat Sport Magazine....I read it enough that I probably knew each word by heart...

As I watch the Speed Channel, they seem to put boring stuff there except NASCAR.....Seems to me, that Lucas Oil's new stadium might change Drag Boat Racing. The good part of Lucas Oil's Stadium, there is no government money or Indian money in the project. Real AMERICAN company trying to make a honest buck.

Firebird, Miami Marine Stadium and Long Beach Marine Stadium have alwasy been used to promote something besides boat racing.

In the winter of 1955-56 when we race for 39 STRAIGHT weeks on TV...All the way home from Venice, California where we raced to Bellflower, where we lived, about an hour drive. We waved to fans as they honked at us as they passed us...Speedboat Redeo was the number one Sunday TV Show in Los Angeles!

But when the "RACING SEASON" came the boat racers wanted to go to places like Needles, Blythe, Long Beach and San Diego to race...Not to the "PUDDLE" to be on TV....They didn't like racing in salt water! They didn't want to race every weekend!

Ted May carried the last four or five shows by himself...!

Now you know the rest of the story!

[Matt Dagostino]

Peter peter.............

[QUOTE=B1PRORACER;1722

As far as class reductions and consolidation is concerned perhaps there is another perspective. Try to “think outside the box” a little…. Perhaps the classes that we have available are just fine. The problem is that we just don’t have enough people doing the racing![/QUOTE]


Well said again........hope you had a wonderful holiday.

Matt

[blueskyracer]

Kudos to NBRA if they pull that off first. APBA should be ashamed for missing the boat if it was that easy.

If NBRA gets a race at the Lucas Oil Stadium I will be there. If for no other reason that to support your efforts and check out a cool looking venue!

Good luck!, a potential new NBRA member.

Dean
12M

That would be worth the trip if it happens. I will join NBRA too just for one race.

[Skoontz]

What happened since 1956 is the same thing that is happening to businesses in California. Over regulation.
To spec one engine per class is the stupidest and most frustrating thing I have ever seen. I knew that going in, but nevefr imagined how fruistrating it is, nor saw how obvious the fix is, until we entered the sport.

You dont have the numbers or the lattitude to dictate what anyone can run and you are acting like you do....

After considering go karting, we decided to go NHRA this year and I will make a simple comparison from a sport dysfunctional, to one that is functional.

APBA members are under 800. There are 4,634 members in the Jr. Dragster program alone in NHRA.

Think price. An entry level rig in APBA, you will have $7500, boat motor trailer. A Jr. Comp dragster, brand new is $20,000. Go back to numbers Less than 1,000 members in APBA, lover 4500 members in Jr. Dragster alone. Price has little to do with it, promotion and accessability does.

They allow four engine choices in Jr. Comp Dragster, Harley, Yamaha, Hayubusa or Suzuki and they are all working very close to the other. They do not dictate by part number, how heavy your flywheel must be or what head to run or for that matter what production years your engine must come from....

NHRA alllows gasoline. Any pump gasoline, or high octane race gasoline or any mix.

Alky must be alky, and Nitro must be nitro. Thats it.

No testing for things that matter not in current pump gases which equates to more pain in the ass for those considering entry.

It costs $25 a year to become a racing member of the Jr. dragster program.
It costs several times that to become a member of APBA.

In NHRA it costs $25 for the first day of qualification, and you can get 6 passes prior to eliminations. If you make it to Sunday, Sunday will cost $75 for entries.

I've never paid less than $180.00 for a weekend of AXS racing.

APBA races are usually located 6 hours away on a piss puddle in down town BF Egypt where they roll the sidewalks up assming they have any, after 5 at night.

NHRA races are typically no more than 2 hours from my house.

So, with that in mind, first order of agenda is to get rid of brand requirements and place displacement requirements on motors. Side by side with that, find places where people walk near on a daily basis and get the races to run there. If the boats wont work on the rough water, build boats that will work and get rid of the ones that dont.

In APBA racing, you have, by fans eyes, a what the hell is that clock...The clock may be fun to race on for the racers, but the fans are trying to figure out what the hell is going on. It worked great in 1956, but it ain't working now.

In NHRA, you have a Christmas tree where all the lights are visible by the fans, who by the way, suppport the sport. Wow what a concept, please fans first....

NASCAR is not a good comparison, simply because there are no more grass roots in that sport. NHRA has many grass roots run what you brung classes all the way up to top fuel.

Boat racing is all grass roots. There is nothing for anyone who enters to race up to.
The stadium racing model of Japan has always intrigued me, and with Nevada and New Jersey offering gaming, those are great places to get into the spot light. I have no problem racing with people betting but you have to change it up. Lemans starts, relays, things like that so odds can be created.

Make these changes, then sit back and see what happens. You might see the sport go from the toilet bowl back into the tank, and from the tank, it could easily return to the lake in the spot light. Stay the same, and the hand will move closer to the lever until someone flushes the toilet.

I hate to be so blunt but, its reality.

[Dennis Crews]

[QUOTE=Skoontz;172226],"If the boats wont work on the rough water, build boats that will work and get rid of the ones that dont."

Bingo! People that have been in this sport much longer than I have been alive and who are MUCH smarter than me have told me that much of the water conditions that shut us down today would still be safe for the boats we ran in the 1970's. Having to tell a sponsor "yep we can be there for you unless the water gets too rough" just doesn't close the deal very well.

[Ron Hill]

Rough water boats....

It will be interesting to see, but Southern California is going to have several races in 2011 for Mini Boats, and for our COR 200 Class.

COR stands for Classic Outboard Boat Racing...

Top picture is Buck's Outboard, two seater hydro with a Merc 500 on it...

Second one is my FAT C, Sport Boat...

Third picture is Fred Bowden's 19 DAYTONA...a legal COR 200...

[raceright]

What happened since 1956 is the same thing that is happening to businesses in California. Over regulation.
To spec one engine per class is the stupidest and most frustrating thing I have ever seen. I knew that going in, but nevefr imagined how fruistrating it is, nor saw how obvious the fix is, until we entered the sport.

You dont have the numbers or the lattitude to dictate what anyone can run and you are acting like you do....

After considering go karting, we decided to go NHRA this year and I will make a simple comparison from a sport dysfunctional, to one that is functional.

APBA members are under 800. There are 4,634 members in the Jr. Dragster program alone in NHRA.

Think price. An entry level rig in APBA, you will have $7500, boat motor trailer. A Jr. Comp dragster, brand new is $20,000. Go back to numbers Less than 1,000 members in APBA, lover 4500 members in Jr. Dragster alone. Price has little to do with it, promotion and accessability does.

They allow four engine choices in Jr. Comp Dragster, Harley, Yamaha, Hayubusa or Suzuki and they are all working very close to the other. They do not dictate by part number, how heavy your flywheel must be or what head to run or for that matter what production years your engine must come from....

NHRA alllows gasoline. Any pump gasoline, or high octane race gasoline or any mix.

Alky must be alky, and Nitro must be nitro. Thats it.

No testing for things that matter not in current pump gases which equates to more pain in the ass for those considering entry.

It costs $25 a year to become a racing member of the Jr. dragster program.
It costs several times that to become a member of APBA.

In NHRA it costs $25 for the first day of qualification, and you can get 6 passes prior to eliminations. If you make it to Sunday, Sunday will cost $75 for entries.

I've never paid less than $180.00 for a weekend of AXS racing.

APBA races are usually located 6 hours away on a piss puddle in down town BF Egypt where they roll the sidewalks up assming they have any, after 5 at night.

NHRA races are typically no more than 2 hours from my house.

So, with that in mind, first order of agenda is to get rid of brand requirements and place displacement requirements on motors. Side by side with that, find places where people walk near on a daily basis and get the races to run there. If the boats wont work on the rough water, build boats that will work and get rid of the ones that dont.

In APBA racing, you have, by fans eyes, a what the hell is that clock...The clock may be fun to race on for the racers, but the fans are trying to figure out what the hell is going on. It worked great in 1956, but it ain't working now.

In NHRA, you have a Christmas tree where all the lights are visible by the fans, who by the way, suppport the sport. Wow what a concept, please fans first....

NASCAR is not a good comparison, simply because there are no more grass roots in that sport. NHRA has many grass roots run what you brung classes all the way up to top fuel.

Boat racing is all grass roots. There is nothing for anyone who enters to race up to.
The stadium racing model of Japan has always intrigued me, and with Nevada and New Jersey offering gaming, those are great places to get into the spot light. I have no problem racing with people betting but you have to change it up. Lemans starts, relays, things like that so odds can be created.

Make these changes, then sit back and see what happens. You might see the sport go from the toilet bowl back into the tank, and from the tank, it could easily return to the lake in the spot light. Stay the same, and the hand will move closer to the lever until someone flushes the toilet.

I hate to be so blunt but, its reality.

VERY GOOD SKOONTZ

Although I do not agree with all you have said I do agree with much. If 20 % of what you have written was used things would get better. (my 20 %lololol)

Biggest problem we in boat racing have is we do not have control of our race track and we are a member controlled Orginization--not like NHRA or any other racing that I know of. Solve that and see what develops. Its not the classes or who's boat & engine can run with who its the overall structure that causes failure.

Pat.

[dholt]

Really????

[QUOTE=B1PRORACER;1722

As far as class reductions and consolidation is concerned perhaps there is another perspective. Try to “think outside the box” a little…. Perhaps the classes that we have available are just fine. The problem is that we just don’t have enough people doing the racing![/QUOTE]


Well said again........hope you had a wonderful holiday.


Matt,

You must be kidding. So if 100 people wanted to start racing 25ssH or BSR tomorrow, you'd tell them what?

Where do 50 race ready 25xs motors exist?
Where are 50 race ready Hot Rods? Or if you suggest a 15 SW, are they capable of winning? Not from what I've seen.

Not only that...you tell a guy after he buys a rig that he sits around for 6-8 hours each day to get his 6 minutes (2 heats) of boat time. Really??

How is any of the above considered OK?

[Matt Dagostino]

Hey Dana

Well said again........hope you had a wonderful holiday.



You must be kidding.

Where do 50 race ready 25xs motors exist?

Dana
Except for Montoya's 70 race ready Yamato's there are no 50 race ready motors anywhere for anything we race. So stop picking on the Merc 25xs racers. If i were Ian Christopher in Long Island or anyother recently new 25xs driver i would not be very happy with your thinking. Ian made a rational thought out decision when he purchased his 25xs rig! Where he lives he can race several races with it and go to the Nationals and compete also if he wishes. It works for him and many others. I don't know why certain of our Stock leaders seem to think new interested potential racers are STUPID. There has to be some due-dilligence process 'newbies' go through in scoping out what class would be appropriate based on where they live and what there budget allows!

As you know our racing classes over the decades have become somewhat Regional and that sucks but it is what has evolved for many reasons........the ole A B C D structure would be sweet in a perfect world but except for you and i nobody else is perfect!! Lol.

Stay warm my friend........

Matt
ps..........all this class combo heartburn seems somewhat hard to swallow over 2 classes?? I still think if the members and the SORC had the guts to make the 302 the motor of choice in C class and 20ssh class years ago we would be in a better place in lieu of having 30 year old antique motors dominating still in our premier classes. But then again certain members killer props and old Yamato motors would be obsoleted and we can't have that happen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[dholt]

Look at the bigger picture.

I won't use real classes as an example...since we're all so sensitive here.

If class "x" didn't exist in boat racing...all NEW members would be funneled into classes "y" and "z" in the future. Therefore...classes "y" and "z" would all grow in numbers each time a newcomer arrived.

Drivers of classes "y" and "z" could travel anywhere around the country and know they wouldn't be left on the beach due to a lack of entries.

Secondly...with less classes to run...you could offer MORE boat time to the remaining classes. Bigger ROI to someone who drops $5k or more on a rig.

Still have shorter race days. Less burnout for volunteers. Easier to sell the wife and family...rather than saying "we'll leave at 6:30pm Sunday".

I'll finish with this. If our current structure was working...then why isn't there growth???????