jonrude

[raceright]

I would like to bring the 3 cylinder evinrude and johnson mod motor into the 500 pro runabout and hydro classes. Also would allow them to have pipes and run on Menthanol--This might just give some who have this stuff a chance to run with the USTS and add to Pro numbers. The speeds would maybe not be competive to start but might be with some work and time.
So lets have you thoughts???

[Steve77t]

No!

If they want to make their 50+ inch (700/850cc) motors 30 (500cc) then no problem 40 deflectors can run now in 500ccr. Hydro's will have to be capsule type. Then the speed difference would be a problem with the true race motors. ( meaning purpose built race motors) Though the mods are going good but the speed difference would be a problem with the bore & stroke motors to possibly create a course/ racing problem.

[sam]

OK, Steve ... how about increasing the deflector step down to a more realistic 2 sizes rather than the current unrealistic 1?

When the step down rule was written, it worked ... it hasn't been realistic for a generation or 2. Time have changed, if PRO isn't going to double down, they might as well cash it in and delete the rule altogether.

[Steve77t]

OK, Steve ... how about increasing the deflector step down to a more realistic 2 sizes rather than the current unrealistic 1?

When the step down rule was written, it worked ... it hasn't been realistic for a generation or 2. Time have changed, if PRO isn't going to double down, they might as well cash it in and delete the rule altogether.

So You want to run a 60" 6 in 500 runabout? Don't see much improvement here. But I wouldn't care if they did change the rule, but still a problem with boat speed difference. Still don't know why we would need to do this. The mod div has a really neat class called FE I think that is a bore and stroke type class, but just has to run on Gas, as I understood Lon Stevens idea several ago. But now all the winning over last year from mod guy's was too expensive and too many guy's doing what I thought was trick and neat stuff. Idea from Lon was to be able to do this and cross over to Pro. This didn't work out to well. So I ask why do we need to consider this? Sounds like maybe a region may want to run 500 runabout but they have no boats for this, but they do have FE runabouts. I don't know

[raceright]

So You want to run a 60" 6 in 500 runabout? Don't see much improvement here. But I wouldn't care if they did change the rule, but still a problem with boat speed difference. Still don't know why we would need to do this. The mod div has a really neat class called FE I think that is a bore and stroke type class, but just has to run on Gas, as I understood Lon Stevens idea several ago. But now all the winning over last year from mod guy's was too expensive and too many guy's doing what I thought was trick and neat stuff. Idea from Lon was to be able to do this and cross over to Pro. This didn't work out to well. So I ask why do we need to consider this? Sounds like maybe a region may want to run 500 runabout but they have no boats for this, but they do have FE runabouts. I don't know

Hi Steve

keep it coming ya giving me some ideas. Just looking to add some boats to hydro and runabout,and give some guys more options thats all.

Pat

[Steve77t]

Hi Steve

keep it coming ya giving me some ideas. Just looking to add some boats to hydro and runabout,and give some guys more options thats all.

Pat

Hi Pat, Hope ya'll had a nice Thanksgiving and will have a better Christmas. I'm not sure what you are trying to do here but my only point is with a boat that is much slower on the course and trying to be real racy with the front runners. I have run with some step down guy's before in 500r and though I applaud their efforts and for what they had, it ran good, But when I could pass them with 20+MPH, that does not make for a good race. Second, with slower boats like these they tend to cut a much deeper hole behind them and this creates a driving hazard for the front runners.500 Runabout is the highest HP to weight ratio class we have in PRO so mixing 80 MPH boats with very high 90 MPH boats make for a bad race course in two laps or so. The 500 guy's don't need any help at screwing the water up as they generally won't start a 500r race until Small Craft Warnings are out. Do we need a Spec Class? No, I don't think so as racing has many of these. Again the Mod division has a class for everyone. Do I agree with some of their classes? NO as many are redundant, meaning they are not MOD motors, just a stocker with a pipe. As Long as we are stirring the pot, let me add that Stock is not Stock and has not been for many years. They are really Modified as they are also Blue Printed. I don't have a problem with this and think everyone should be able to bring their motors up to manufacture specs by anyone that can do this work. It would put the motors on a even playing field. NHRA has done this for many years with great success. A Mod motor should be anything you want to do with a stock store bought motor. Cutting, Welding, I don't care as long as the store bought cases are used. NO Repops!. Pro should be Bore and Stroke. Home built or what ever anyone can think up under the rules thats it!. Say hi to Jimmy and give the MRS a hug for me. Steve

[sam]

I had no particular motor or class in mind, just that the current one class step down rule is archaic. It should be changed to 2 or deleted.

40ci Mercs can currently step down to 500, but even with more mods and alcohol ... they'd never compete with real alkies ... but I think it might be different putting them with 350's. Same thing with 30's & 250's as long as you aren't under current Stock or Mod fuel & motor rules (there are a lot of things that can be done that are not allowed).

A 1,000 cc 60ci Merc steps down to 700 ... even stepping down 2 to 500 would be too much speed difference, I agree and it was not something I had considered.

[Steve77t]

I had no particular motor or class in mind, just that the current one class step down rule is archaic. It should be changed to 2 or deleted.

40ci Mercs can currently step down to 500, but even with more mods and alcohol ... they'd never compete with real alkies ... but I think it might be different putting them with 350's. Same thing with 30's & 250's as long as you aren't under current Stock or Mod fuel & motor rules (there are a lot of things that can be done that are not allowed).

A 1,000 cc 60ci Merc steps down to 700 ... even stepping down 2 to 500 would be too much speed difference, I agree and it was not something I had considered.

Hi Sam, Just to bring you up to date, I think also this step down rule should go away as most 350 hydro's now , run as fast or faster than the open 500's did their last year. 250's make the 100MPH mark sweat bullits. The pro's are running much faster these day's due to advancements in motor design from company's like VRP and Rossi and Konny. To put it in perspective, a 125 today runs faster than a FA Konig did in 1980. Nearly same boat but half the displacment. I just say WOW! Steve

[racnbns]

Step down rule---

Hi Sam, Just to bring you up to date, I think also this step down rule should go away as most 350 hydro's now , run as fast or faster than the open 500's did their last year. 250's make the 100MPH mark sweat bullits. The pro's are running much faster these day's due to advancements in motor design from company's like VRP and Rossi and Konny. To put it in perspective, a 125 today runs faster than a FA Konig did in 1980. Nearly same boat but half the displacment. I just say WOW! Steve

Hi Steve:

I don't recall seeing a stepdown since I came out of retirement[1999]. I used to step down when we were short of boats for D runabout[1970's].

I agree with you about getting rid of the step down rule and I'll bring it up at the annual meeting.

Bruce

[raceright]

Speed

Steve

Well put most Stock and Mod drivers do not know that the Pro's are that fast.
Thanks for putting that out. Many think that the old days when alkies were mostly hoped up mercs that did not run most of the time is still the way it is.
USTS Pro only races and advancement in engine design helped change all that. (ELEC Starters tooooo lololol)
I 'm just trying to figure out more ways for other drivers to get exposure to what we do and thought this might be another way.

Bruce I do not care if ya want to get rid of the step down rule lets just not make it a major part of the day OK.

Pat

Kiss Connie for Me

[Hunter]

mod to pro

..my brief experience with pro boats was getting to run a Mike Schmidt 250 rig at Chrystal lake in a three boat race. While about the same speed as the FEH, there was no similar acceleration or slam-bang ride like we get. ( no offense,but it was almost boring by comparison) The 3cyl omc is a big chunk of iron and can make some serious waves. I can't imagine any compatability with any pro class. I want to try a little pro action as I think I have a great boat for it. I can buy a decent 350 motor for much less than it would take to put together a good FE motor. I guess I can't see the point of a scenario which would allow trying to get an ill-designed motor into pro races.

[Juliebrenna]

So You want to run a 60" 6 in 500 runabout? Don't see much improvement here. But I wouldn't care if they did change the rule, but still a problem with boat speed difference. Still don't know why we would need to do this. The mod div has a really neat class called FE I think that is a bore and stroke type class, but just has to run on Gas, as I understood <a href="http://www.teamresurrection.com" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0) ! important; text-decoration: none ! important; cursor: default ! important;">cris gonunu</a> idea several ago. But now all the winning over last year from mod guy's was too expensive and too many guy's doing what I thought was trick and neat stuff. Idea from Lon was to be able to do this and cross over to Pro. This didn't work out to well. So I ask why do we need to consider this? Sounds like maybe a region may want to run 500 runabout but they have no boats for this, but they do have FE runabouts. I don't know

I'm going to have to agree here. I dont see much improvement either.

[Dave M]

I Vote No

As Steve pointed out I would like to add. Speed wise, there is less differences on top end than some might think with a top competing FER. Where the huge differences can be found is torque and weight ratios. The OMC's will dig a hole the size of Depue in the corners. Not real nice to hit at 90+ MPH. I would say the top speed differences are a lot less than 20MPH, but there is still a decent difference that it would not work out real well.

Mick Schmidt has a OMC 3 Holer on Alkie. We put megaphones in it, and tuned it. It would compete possibly, but I don't think it would last long. I also don't think it would compete with todays technology. This engine was done many many moons ago. So today, now that I think about it, probably would not be as competitive as we thought it would be.

Steve, I also agree with a few Mod engines... simply stockers with a pipe bolted on.