Why race 25XS ?

[raceboat61-S]

Gents,
I've raced the 25XS for 7 years. Watched the Region 6 entries dwindle and wondered why?
Here are some of the reasons I think 25XS is the best, TRUE STOCK class/engine:
1. It is relatively inexpensive $1800-2500. Most parts still available from your local Merc dealer.
2. Competitive without expensive modifications or blueprinting. Can't really do much. Some say there is a special block?? I don't see any difference in the average racers engine whether it is chrome, Mercosil or whatever. My 2 motors are chrome and they are tough and I compete.
3. Tough engine. I have one for runabout and one for hydro (so I don't have to change engines all weekend). In 7 years I have only changed the rings ONE TIME on each engine. Replaced a switchbox on one of them. Never had a problem with crankshaft or broken a recoil starter !
4. At 65 years old I can't carry a Yamato up the slope at Dayton. The 25XS weighs about 70 pounds.
5. Easy to start in the water. I can 1-hand the recoil starter with either hand. Starts in deep water all by yourself if you've pulled the kill switch or let go of the throttle.
6. Never have to worry about cooling problems.
7. Fixed-jet carburetor, I don't have to worry about too lean or too rich. "I don't count clicks" . Matter of fact, I've never changed the jets from race to race....Ever !
8. No foot shaping or sending stuff off to TJ just so I can race.
9. I only change the spark plugs when I go to the Nationals. Run the same plugs for 2 years now cause I skipped the Nats.
10. The class is fast, and not for new drivers. The guys I drive with are mature, consistent, predictable, reliable and great friends.
This class deserves to be considered in any Stock Realignment plans. Some on the West Coast have probably never seen one run. There are a number of rumors and a few have had bad experiences causing the engine to fall out of favor. I don't understand and want other 25XS drivers to chime-in to help dispell the tarnished image of the Merc 25XS. With the coming of the Sidewinder 20, I think we could re-invigorate the 25SSH and 25SSR classes. When an above average 25XS has a real chance to compete for a heat win, (Get the restricted Yamato's out of our class). These engines will come out of the garage and back out on the racecourse.
My thanks to the Dave Youngs', and Doug P. , and Jeff Brewster for helping to continue to promote the 25XS classes.
Thanks, Mike Raceboat61-S

[B Walker]

Mike, I dont blame you for making this effort to defend the class that you love but there are several false statements here that need to be addressed.

1. It is relatively inexpensive $1800-2500. Most parts still available from your local Merc dealer.

Most parts, but not all. All the high rate of failure parts are no longer available. What happens when the part you need is not available at any price? Are we there yet? How soon until we are? How do we tell the new boatracer that?

2. Competitive without expensive modifications or blueprinting. Can't really do much. Some say there is a special block?? I don't see any difference in the average racers engine whether it is chrome, Mercosil or whatever. My 2 motors are chrome and they are tough and I compete.

Anyone that was around to watch or participate in the Merc Challenge Series races of the 1980's knows there is a big difference between the "good" 25XS's and the "average" ones. 3MPH or more. Motor parity is an important concept in Stock Outboard and the 25XS motor is often brought up as being the least unequal right out of the box.

10. The class is fast, and not for new drivers. The guys I drive with are mature, consistent, predictable, reliable and great friends.
This class deserves to be considered in any Stock Realignment plans. Some on the West Coast have probably never seen one run. There are a number of rumors and a few have had bad experiences causing the engine to fall out of favor. I don't understand and want other 25XS drivers to chime-in to help dispell the tarnished image of the Merc 25XS. With the coming of the Sidewinder 20, I think we could re-invigorate the 25SSH and 25SSR classes. When an above average 25XS has a real chance to compete for a heat win, (Get the restricted Yamato's out of our class).

How soon they forget that the Yamatos were allowed into 25SSR as a last ditch effort to save the class. It was a class vote.

In other words, without the Yamatos the class cannot stand on its own so be careful what you ask for.

In summary 25SSH and 25SSR is a regional class popular in Region 6, 7 and Canada. It is barely raced anywhere else in the country. It has been like this for more than 10 years and the end of the class has become an annual topic of discussion.

I am hopeful that a solution can be found that keeps the 25XS on the water but dont believe it has earned a spot as a stand alone class or as a Sidewinder/25XS only class at this time in Stock Outboard.

None of this is personal. I am trying to express an objective opinion and support difficult decisions that must be made for the good of the sport.

Brad Walker

PS I have owned 2 25XS's

[Jeff Brewster 59s]

A clarification for you Brad:
"In summary 25SSH and 25SSR is a regional class popular in Region 6, 7 and Canada. It is barely raced anywhere else in the country. It has been like this for more than 10 years and the end of the class has become an annual topic of discussion."

This is incorrect, since I have been racing in Regions 1, 2 and 3 for the past five years.

Here is an example of this "no longer needed" class at Taunton, Mass last year.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDpahpB0TE8

[DiGia54D]

Region 1 has at least 5 at every race and thats with just the guys from Maine & NY

[Matt Dagostino]

Fired Up................

A clarification for you Brad:
"In summary 25SSH and 25SSR is a regional class popular in Region 6, 7 and Canada. It is barely raced anywhere else in the country. It has been like this for more than 10 years and the end of the class has become an annual topic of discussion."

This is incorrect, since I have been racing in Regions 1, 2 and 3 for the past five years.

Here is an example of this "no longer needed" class at Taunton, Mass last year.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDpahpB0TE8

Jeff
Nice to see you fired up!! Maybe Dean has released the BEAST in you!

I always enjoyed my days in 25XS.........

Matt

[raceboat61-S]

Brad,
My statement that "most parts are still availble" is still CORRECT. With the exception of the new Sidewinders, Merc J's, and 302's I don't know of an engine or class that doesn't some availability issues. Our stuff is old!
Don't steer an new driver to 25SSH. It is for experienced drivers, only.
Every class has about a 3mph difference between the guys like Joe Z, Ed Hearn, Pater, etc and "the rest of us". Some of it is engine but the rest is because of experience, testing, fine-tuned rigs, and pre-race prep. I'm an average racer and my performance reflects the level of effort I put into my racing. BUT, I am competitive because the 25XS is so EASY !
East Coast Regions have become the hotbed of 25XS racing largely because of the efforts of Dave Young, et al; building engines, making parts available, helping drivers and filling nearly full fields of boats at every race. There is a resurrgence there because of effort of racers.
Stock Outboard doesn't let "class votes". Decisions are made at National meeting by elected officers.
I don't take your comments personally. I'm just trying to do my part to re-invigorate the class. My reasons stand and I hope others will take a fresh look. Mike

[14J]

Numbers

I think Dean's plan allows for local classes and that class scheduling remain at the discretion of the host club. What he is trying to do is clean up the category at the national level. Create a marketable program. I don't see how these numbers support 25SSH as a standalone class. Finding it a new home seems logical to me.


06260 - 25SSH
Name City,State Races
1 ROBERT HOWE [RICHMOND, ME] 13
2 BRIAN ROSSMAN [LEWISTON, NY] 8
3 EON CHRISTOPHER [VALLEY STREAM, NY] 12
4 DOUGLAS PEARSALL [MATTITUCK, NY] 7
5 SHAWN CAVANAUGH [SHAPLEIGH, ME] 7
6 MICHAEL THIERFELDER [NORRISTOWN, PA] 6
7 DAVID W YOUNG [IVORYTON, CT] 6
8 JEFF BREWSTER [RAVENNA, OH] 4
9 JOHN RUNNE [NEW BERN, NC] 3
10 JOE ZOLKOSKE III [OSHKOSH, WI] 1
11 KEN RAMSEY [CANADA, ] 5
12 ALAN AKERSTROM [WESTFORD, MA] 4
13 GLEN VANVALKENBURG [CANADA, ] 2
14 CHUCK ZOLKOSKE [NEW LONDON, WI] 1
15 TERRY MORSE [CASTLETON, VT] 2
16 JOSEPH KENT [HYDEVILLE, VT] 2
17 NATHANIEL LORD [MARBLEHEAD, MA] 3
18 ROB DIXON [CANADA, ] 3
19 MIKE AKERSTROM [WESTFORD, MA] 1
20 ROB KEEGAN [CANADA, ] 3
21 EARL DESIATO [MIDDLESEX, NJ] 1
22 ROGER ELLIS [CASTLETON, VT] 2
23 STEVE NOURY [EAST HAMPSTEAD, NH] 1
24 JAMES LUCE [E QUOGUE, NY] 1
25 RYAN JOHNSON [RENTON, WA] 1

P.S. I do recognize that these numbers will shift slightly when fall racing is completed

[14J]

you listed 25 drivers

add up the entry fee's, x 100 (i added up the number of times they raced)= 100 x average entry of ? $25.00 = $ 2500.00

take the 25 drivers away from a strugling APBA= 25X $125.00= $3125.00

Let 25ssh be as it is, it does not effect many local races, they either have a good field or none,

Could still be a full field at the nationals, TAKE THE $$ - Let em race!

when was the last time we ran DSH or DSR at big rapids?

Todd

You circled back to finances and I agree we must consider this. Under Dean’s plan he as addressed this by giving us 3 days of racing over a 2-day weekend. In my world I’d be happy to pay another entry and have more water time after driving 5 to 7 hours to an average race.

I don't have a vested interest in 25 so I will let the 25 drivers have at this one. I just think it makes sense.

[hydroracer25]

For Sale:

late 80s/early 90s B&H 25XS hydro. Won 3 Nationals in it's day. Own a piece of history today!

$600.00

[Norm Schaub]

Back when we were running 7 classes at every race, the 25XS hydro and runabout were the most favored classes in our pits. We lost our 30H, 55H, 402 (35SS), KG4
(A) BSH (20CI Hot Rod) 60J J Hydro and Runabout all to "CHANGE".
But only the 25XS and 15SS classes survived. So we changed direction, and went to
SST 45 for more water time and full fields.
25XS can still be viable with the influx of 20CI Sidewinders and the Yamato for one more year. Then remove the Yamato so the class will have similar sized boats for safety. There are plenty places for the Yamatos to race after this happens, and maybe there will be more reasons for people to buy a Sidewinder if they know the class will have similar boats.

[rossman]

25ssh

The 25xs is a very good motor. I have never not made it out for a heat because my 25xs would not start. The 25's I have had over the years are very close in speed making them a great stock class. I have never overheated or broke any internal parts in 12 years of racing. Can't imagine what parts aren't available do to numerous failures??? We have good numbers in Canada and region 1 usually the largest stock class. Your reduction proposal will not make races any closer, gas and equipment any cheaper, or the economy any better. Let the 25 die if it is going to. Don't kill it !

[Tomtall]

Soooooo

OK - After reading the pros for the 25xs/Sidewinder I agree that your points are valid. Run the class with the smaller boats and the older but still in the loop Merc.XS engine and the new Sidewinder to eventually replace it.

But were do I put my son with his "C" class McCourtie runabout running the 9/16" restricted Yamato with a 430 lb. Min. weight. This combo is also popular with racers across the country and please don't say run them with the "C" class. I don't feel the younger drivers running this set-up should compete in that class anymore than the AX class kids should have to race with the grown ups in "A" class. Just looking for salutions for changing class structure here.

[runabout333]

Yes,, this is 2010.. No,, we can not bring back 1990.
In 1990 there were even a lot of 25XS motors that were raced in
region 8.. Mid West Power Boat Association very a large club..
There were even a lot of 15 c.i. Hot Rods, both stock and mod AND
20 c.i. Hot Rods,, both stock and mod..
I believe the 25 ss class should be a stand alone class.
As a spectator, I still attend a race every so often, it is important
to me to see only one BRAND of motor in each class.
This is just one guys opinion..Thanks for listening.
Faithfully,,,, David Viola,,, retired ,, Y-33 from Kansas..

[Fast Jack]

I run 25 SSH because;

# 1. Christine gives the drivers HUGS. To the nay sayers please list the parts you cant find. You can build a 25 xs with more new parts than you would find for an Yamato or 102. I can get 25 xs coils at NAPA try that with your 102.

[14J]

# 1. Christine gives the drivers HUGS. To the nay sayers please list the parts you cant find. You can build a 25 xs with more new parts than you would find for an Yamato or 102. I can get 25 xs coils at NAPA try that with your 102.

Nay sayers? No one ever mentioned killing the 25xs. The discussion centers on repositioning it.

Comparing it to the 102 doesn't help an argument for the 25xs. The 102 is not a class in itself, it's a legal motor in Stock Outboards largest class.

The 102 has a replacement in the 302. You can choose to rummage the junk yard in an effort to keep your 102 on the water or you can make life easy and go win with a production 302. For those who may think you need a 102 to win go ask Perman, JMK, and Peters. You don't.

In closing I own a 102. This motor can go away tomorrow if it is in the best interest of the sport.