25ssh

[SunRiseRacing]

I've asked several times with little or no response. So I'll ask again.

Why is a restricted yamato legal in 25ssR and not in 25ssH???

The only answer I've gotten is that the Merc will blow the yamato away. I'f that's the case then why all the conflict in the OTHER thread? Anyone that runs 25ssh in the Region 3 & 4 area know that we struggle to put a 25ssh class on. If often doesn't even make the schedule. Just take a look a "the last race in the east" thread, the question is, is there going to be enough for a class.

Make the yamato legal, if it's sooo much slower than it's up to ME to make it compete. If it were legal, than I'm sure there wouldn't be a problem make a full field. I think we ALL can agree that the more entries that we have, means more funds for our local clubs. We've all read threads here that alot of backyard races are struggling to make it. Also, in MY opinion, this change will help promote our sport. The more classes a person, most on a limited budget, can run with one boat and one motor would help them make the decission to get out on the water. Example: a new driver buys a 302 and a hydro he or she can run: CSH, 25SSH & 20SSH. That same driver could then purchase a runabout use the same motor and run: CSR & 25SSR. That same person under current rules can run CSH & 20SSH, but not the class in between the two. They have to go buy a Merc instead. And if a certain few people have their way, that same person could only run CSR. They have to get a different boat (rull-up) and possible a different motor (agian a Merc).

What message are we trying to send? Get out and RACE or spend alot of money on hard to come by equipment and have to make a lot of changes to go race.

Ed Hearn, Dean Sutherland and all those that have the answers. Well I want one. It's time to stop squabbling as an individual class and start agreeing as APBA STOCK OUTBOURD RACING!

[modracer7b]

The problem here is that many of our policymakers are at the top of or contending for titles in their classes. They fail to recognize the segment of racers that are more interested in just running their rigs than winning titles. They can't comprehend an individual would race just for the sake of running his rig. The policymakers feel that a rig cannot run in a class if it is unlikely to have a chance of winning. Since the late 80's, when I returned to racing, I have advocated keeping all phased out engines legal in some class, even if it is unlikely to be able to win. Drivers could then still be able to run what they got until they can get something better rather than just give up and quit. For years, I ran my CMR here in the east against FER's because at the time, there just weren't any other CMR's around. I wanted to run a runabout and there just weren't any runabouts around at the time. Even CSR was not running in my area at the time. I preferred to run MOD at the time and did not want to run a hydro anymore. I had the C engine and really did not have the money to buy a FER at the time. So it was either run with FER or not run at all. The fun that I had every time I was able to beat the FER's with my CMR was like winning a title. My first time around in racing, I won my share of titles as well as getting in the old Gulf Marine Racing Hall of Fame, so I do know the feeling. Because racing had become so much smaller, I enjoyed it in a different way this time around. The benefit to racing was that I showed up and paid entry fees, usually put 1 to 5 boats a day on the water and did my time in a patrol boat when I could. I was also their to help my brother Ken, my neice Colleen, my son Sean and other friends when they raced. I saw it as a win-win situation for everybody.

The bottom line is get the boats on the water, keep the existing drivers racing, make it easier for people to try the sport with recycled equipment and then let each individual driver decide what level they want to race at.

- Bill Rosado

[ryan_4z]

The reason that this will not work is because a 25ssH is about 2-3 mph faster than a CSH. Whereas a 25ssR is comparable in speed to a CSR. Because of the nature of the 25 motor it gets going alot better on a hydro than a runabout. The speed difference between runabout and hydro is much more in 25 than it is in C.

[SunRiseRacing]

2 or 3 mph

Ryan,

There's boats in EVERY class that run 2 or 3 mph slower than the fastest rig out there. But there still out there racing, not sitting on the beach. It's up the the individual to make it compete. The Merc might have a little more top end speed, but the 302 would have the advantage off the corners. With a little testing the Yamato could run right with it. Everybody had said that the 102 is faster than the 302, with a little prop testing, that theory is about done. I know myself and others was seen gps seeds of 68+mph with a 302 on a CSH. The restricted 302 are starting to compete with the Y80's in 20ssh, if you keep the rpm's up. I heard your dad did pretty well with one. I was passing Y80's a Lock Haven with a RUNNECRAFT (I'll give you a little plug) and was 60lbs over. Besides that a little lack of speed can be made up with a good start and good driving.

When was the last time that you saw a full field of 25ssh in region 4?

I still haven't heard a valid resaon yet. Come on guys!

[ryan_4z]

Kevin,

When you are reading 72 with a CSH then maybe consider this. But it just isnt going to happen. The two motors just aren't compatible. They dont belong in the same class. Besides, what would be the point anyway. Why have another yamato hydro class. The reason that we dont have 25ssHs in this area is because people dont want to race it. People would rather run C or 20. I really think we need to get of this fixation with trying to bring back to life dying classes. This mindset is really holding us back as a sport.

[csh12M]

25ssh

I agree with 4Z.

Later,
12M

[crankbearing]

On the same page

My two cents. On one hand you want to drop classes but on the other hand if you drop the classes are you going to be able to put on boat races. In Canada it costs us between $6000 - 7000 to put on an event for a weekend and that is no entertainment.

we had at least 6 25SSH at every race in Canada and Region 2 this year and 4 of our regulars were out all year with personal issues.

I for one have absolutley no interest in running a stock yamato in any class so if "d" or 25 were dropped I would retire from racing in my opinion. no offence to our yamato racers.

I do not agree with the fact that Mercury or any other manufacturer DO NOT support US.

The bottom line really is still the fact that we are or own worst enemy when it comes to this sport. When stuff is available we do not buy it because we feel it is too expensive but when it is not available we complain about the manufacturers who will not support us. Now isn;t that ironic.

In my opinion if we do not get behind these guys that ARE trying to rebuild classes and HELP the sport then there sure will be a lot of Yamato;s running around at the cottages in a few years for there will be no stock outboard racing organization to compete in.

I think for a 100 year old organization that we all need to GROW up and take a long hard look at what we are doing with this sport we love and appoint someome that has STOCK/MOD OUTBOARD interest at heart to a 5yr term not a 1 or 2 yr term - You show me any business that has a return on investment over two yrs - not likely.

If business's were run the way we have seen this stuff run in the last few years THEY WOULD BE BANKRUPT.....!!!!!!

REGARDS :

[Brew56]

Ryan,

Your most recent post is right on in my opinion. In fact, as I was reading it I started thinking that you'd be a good choice (along with your father) as a Commissioner. Please give it a thought. There just aren't enough of us younger guys interested in helping the sport grow so it's great to see.

Speeds: I've raced both CSH and 25ssH on the same boat. The best speeds we've seen with the 25 is 73. The best with the 102 is around 67-68. I respect Kevin's wishes and wanting to race more but there's just no way these motors would be compatible in the same class.

Jerry Brewster

[modracer7b]

Comparisons!!!

One thing that I keep seeing here is comparisons made by speed alone. Speed comparisons can be very deceiving. As an example, in all the years that Ken Rosado ran his B, C and FE Hydros, we almost never used a speedometer or GPS. Our main method of testing was Elapsed Time. How many seconds did it take to get around the rectangle? If you are running a motor that uses RPM's to get around, it will likely be weak through and out of the turn and a torque motor will be the opposite. We often gave up straightaway speed to keep turn speed and acceleration. We tested props the same way. We changed props without ever putting a meter on them including some that he won the nationals with. That is also why Ken could often win against someone that could pull him on the straight. When combinations of different classes are looked at, the ET factor must be considered as well as straightaway speed.

Like it or not, combinations will have to take place if we are to eliminate classes without losing drivers. History shows that when you get rid of a class, some of those drivers quit. If you want a chance to keep those drivers during class transitions you must give them somewhere that they can continue to run their equipment until they are able to get the new equipment depending on their financial situations. The small differences need to be equalized within reason, making sure the preferred equipment is the most competative in the class.

- Bill Rosado

[ryan_4z]

Jerry,

Thank you. That is one hell of a compliment. I will definetly think about that after I graduate.

Bill,

I agree that in a race lap times are more important than top end. But when considering motors for compatibility I believe that in our sport we want them to be comparable all the way around the course, so as to not give an advantage to one motor over another on different courses. In addition, I am not one who supports having multiple motors in one class anyway. I personally want to race against people with the same motor I have.