Problem Solving 101

[Cameraboy]

A while ago Greg Jacobsen offered to build the A gearcase if there was enough interest, and I believe no one took the time to answer.

Here someone offered to help resolve what is one of the biggest problems in teh stock category, and now people are again complaining about the lack available gearcases.

It seems to me that someone needs to contact Greg and look into this.

Joe Johnson

As I recall, Greg made his offer, and then later commented on the difficultly of such a venture - that X number of units needed to be sold in order to make the production of any financially feasible.

At some point in the last few months, it was posted that the patterns and parts passed to Hot Rod, and were sold to Ron Selawach (sp?) with the company. Further posts have indicated that gearfeet will be available.

I believe we need to hear from the Hot Rod folks on this one.

[modracer7b]

East Coast or Mid-East Coast

Ryan, Did you maybe forget that the east coast also includes the Northeast part of the country as well as part of Canada???

[acr924]

Thoughts to ponder!

There are certainly plenty of issues to go around. In order to figure it all out, we are going to have to categorize the issues. I would envision the categories to be: Marketing Strategy, Growth (membership and races), Classes, and Equipment Availability (new and used). I don't know much about marketing, but maybe Dana or Dean, or whomever,could spearhead that aspect. As far as growth is concerned, membership and races go hand in hand. There is not a region that has a lot of boatraces without strong membership. Nor is there a region that has strong membership without a lot of boatraces. Some regions i.e. Regions 2, 3, 6, 7, 10, and 11 are relatively strong in both categories. Some other regions like 1, 4, 5 etc. are having a real problem. Here in Region 4, when we put on a race, we need support from other regions in order to break even costwise. In order for us to be successful at a local level, we must be self-sufficient. The backbone of our sport is local boatracing, without it we don't grow. When I find somebody interested in racing, all I have to do is tell him the nearest race is 6 hours away. Do we have a new boatracer? This to me is the most important issue, because it doesn't matter how much equipment is available or how well the sport is marketed, it will not grow. I believe that the product we have is good. Yes, it needs work. But when people see race boats, they are instantly excited about it. Ex.- last year on my way to a boatrace, while in a rest area in North Carolina, somebody from Long Island, NY ordered a new boat from me. When people see our races, they get enthusiastic. If we could build up our local racing, I know that within a few years, Region 4 would be self-sufficient.

There's much discussion about the availability of new motors. I will predict that at any given time, we will have new available motors for some classes, while other classes will have motors not currently in production. It can't be any other way. Would it make sense to obsolete a class as soon as the motor is no longer in production? I don't think so! Granted, we have in the past, and may be currently racing motors way too old. But the transition is always a difficult one. Right now our sport is so fragile in its membership, that we're afraid to lose anybody. Unfortunately, with this way of thinking we may be sacrficing the well-being of our sport.

In one his earlier posts, Ryan mentioned an equipment network that was proposed at the last National Meeting. The proposal was that each class would have a chairman. Anybody who is trying to buy or sell equipment would inform that chairman. That chairman would compile a complete list of equipment available. All we are doing here is putting buyers and sellers together. This is a very efficient way of transferring equipment to anybody that is looking for it. Currently, new engines are available for JSR, JSH, AXSR, AXSH, ASH, ASR, CSR, CSH, 25SSR (Yamato), DSH, DSR. We have been told of Hot Rods plans to reinvest in the BSR and BSH immediately and there are plans for a new J motor and A motor. I'll reiterate what Ryan said earlier also, if any of you new guys need equipment- boats, motors, props, safety gear, anything, let us know, we will help you find it. We want you racing. And with your input, we can make things better for this sport.
What is our next step? Can we honestly evaluate ourselves? What is our goal? Do we figure it out right here on this website????
John Runne 2Z

[ryan_4z]

Ryan, Did you maybe forget that the east coast also includes the Northeast part of the country as well as part of Canada???

No I didn't, I do a majority of my racing in region 3, why do you ask?

[sam]

ABCD format

There are no rules (other than economics) preventing a club from running only the 8 or 10 most popular classes (or 8-10 favorite classes of the race committee) right now. I think the 2003 Williamsport PA race was done with minimal number of classes and the sponsor liked it. Paring down to the ABCD day format is something that can be done now and tested.

Ryan, your 4 races in 2 days to get more seat time would have twice as many partol boat changes ..... one of the real time draggers at a lot of events; it would also have twice as much behind the scenes work for the scorers. Why not just have twice as many heats in 2 races/2 days? Call it double elimination or double qualifying or something. It would increase the scorers work some, but not as much as 4 races. Wouldn't it give the same seat time?

[ryan_4z]

The problem is getting a sanction approved. I believe that Brandt had to add DSH to the schedule at Sharptown this summer to get it approved. Which makes no sense because there are no D hydros in our area. Dad and I were going to try to get the club to try this format at a potential race that Brandt was working on in Quantico I believe. But with the events that happened this summer that kind of fell through. The reason for scoring the races seperate would be points, which is another perk for this schedule.

Running a 4 heat race would be just as much work for the scorers so they might as well be scored seperately. As far as patrol boat changes yes there would be more, that is the one problem, but we would run all for heats for a class in the same set. The sets would be shorter, maybe 3 classes. This schedule has less heats than the typical race day though. Even if there were elims in every class the most heats we would have to run in one day is 48. They ran off over 50 heats in a fairly short day at Jessup this spring.

[modracer7b]

No I didn't, I do a majority of my racing in region 3, why do you ask?

Well, because Region 3 is only the SOUTHWESTERN part of the Northeast division. The East Coast does not end at New Jersey. I was wondering how many times you have raced at Taunton, MA, Thompson, CT, Crystal Lake, NY, Long Saulte in Canada and noticed that 250cch is rare and small, 350cch is non-existant, BMH and CMH are popular classes often having drivers competing in both classes, FEH is a major class and 25MH is non-existant. Additionally, the A classes are sometimes small and J classes are seasonal (on for a few years and then off for a few years. My point is that local observations are not national solutions. The my way or the highway approach will only hasten the shrinking of the membership and offers no guarantees for growth. Like it or not, but my last few years of racing, I had a few friends express interest in racing and because they were my friends, I had to be honest with them about the direction that racing was going in. As much as I have enjoyed the sport, I had to advise them to not waste their time and money in a dying sport that has fewer and fewer race dates, fewer and fewer participants and no guarantees that what you buy to race today will be allowed to race tomorrow. - Bill Rosado

[ryan_4z]

Like it or not, but my last few years of racing, I had a few friends express interest in racing and because they were my friends, I had to be honest with them about the direction that racing was going in. As much as I have enjoyed the sport, I had to advise them to not waste their time and money in a dying sport that has fewer and fewer race dates, fewer and fewer participants and no guarantees that what you buy to race today will be allowed to race tomorrow. - Bill Rosado

That's a **** shame. That instead of helping some people get some new into racing, you would just sell the sport off as a dying fad. Someone who has raced as long as you should understand our sport better than that.

As far as racing in the northeast, I race with drivers from regions 1 and 2 regularly, as well as region 3.

As to your other questions, I believe I answered them above. 25MH could be included simply because it is a compatible class with BMH and CMH. The possible 2 or 3 entries it would gain wouldn't hurt, it might get some more people to travel further to come, and the 25mod is legal in BMH anyway. I also already said that it was a schedule that would have to be tweaked. I mentioned that FEH might be a better class to run than the PRO classes, but the idea is to encourage racers from all categories to race more. Again, the idea is not to drive people away. But to setup a weekend of racing that would include the most people as possible, and encourage them to run the biggest, most competitive classes.

[oldunskilledalky]

Problem Solving 101

Looking from the outside in, boat racing organizations have numerous problems. Here are just a few that I see (I hope I don't offend anyone).
1. GOAL. There has to be a long range goal that everyone agrees on, or at least the majority. Things can't be solved overnite!
2. TERMS. How can an elected official solve a problem or implement new ones in a ONE year term? Our government isn't much to talk about, but they do have a least FOUR year terms. Maybe a 3 year term would do for an official. At least he or she would have a since of accomplishment at the end of term.
3. NATIONALLY DESIGNATED CLASSES that must be run at local races with added popular classes from that region. Your National Classes would be J & A for entry level, with A beining opened to any person of the minimum age or older. Your CSR, CSH for most popular. A Mod class or two for noise appeal. And a couple of PRO classes for your pure SPEED. Now throw in a couple of popular classes from your region and you have something to MARKET.
4. SCHEDULES. If regions would get together and each settle on 4 race dates that ajointing regions would not schedule races. The purpose is so you can travel to neighboring regions and make for GOOD turn-outs, GREAT competition. Works hand in hand with MARKETING.
5. WATER. Race water needs to be close to cities in order to draw spectators which eventually turn into RACERS. How are you going to get spectators to drive 50 miles or so from heavily populated areas to watch boat racing? If they won't come to YOU, go to THEM!
6. PROMOTION. Ask Ron Hill! If all drivers sent an action piucture to their local newspaper with a short story about their race and results, there would be no limit to what would happen. People think it is a small sport, or they have never heard of it. Once your local paper starts getting stories from different racers, they will publish pics and stories. Again NEW bodies see and read. Maybe even become interested!
7. SPONSORS. If the above is effective, believe me, this becomes much easier. Sponsors like their name to be seen by masses, not just among youselves. Successful business people don't advertise when they've lost all their business. THEY advertise while they have large crowds or captive audiences.
8. NEWBIES. Have a couple of boats to give newbies rides. Just think of how they sell cars! Give a person a ride in a boat, and half the battle is over with. HOOK the young kids, and the parents will follow and possibly participate.
9. RACE HELP. This will all come together. Put some NEWBIES on the judges stand and in patrol boats. Just another way to peek their interest.
10. PRESS RELEASES. One should be sent to every paper, radio & TV station in the locality of the race TWO weeks prior. Followed with another the next week and another two days before the race. Try to get local bands to play FREE. Works good if you have two or three and have a BATTLE OF BANDS. Brings out more kids. Now days, kids have more money then we ever thought of at their age.
One could go on and on. All things have to work hand in hand. Form committies and get some different ideas. If all of the above or facsimile there of put into action, it could be possible to have GREAT BOAT RACING again!
Name says it all!

[David Weaver]

Food For Thought

Not my category or fight, but...

This thread started-off very well, but is beginning to run off in too many directions. In order to attract new drivers or keep existing drivers there must be equipment available, new equipment and replacement components. Period.

In order for an organization to grow, it must not be mired in a morass of in-fighting. I believe that before that stock outboard category (or any other for that matter including my own) can begin to address class and competition issues that the determination of leadership must be settled. Otherwise a lot of good ideas and debate will be wasted (and the process will run-off in many dead-end tangents like this thread).

Growing outboard racing. 6-8 years ago, if I had met a person (average size adult) interested in joining our racing for the first time, I would have encouraged them to purchase a Yamato 102, 202 or 302. Relatively new engines, available parts, lot's of competition, easy to run and to run competitively. Although I was running PRO, it made no sense to point them towards a class with old engines, where parts were becoming harder to find, engines were harder to keep together and the particpation trends were worrisome.

Then one day Rossi showed up. Then a couple years later VRP came to us.

So today, I would suggest to that average size adult that they seriously consider 125 hydro or runabout. Plenty of available engines and parts (some wait time on inititial delivery, but hopefully this is improving). Also, 2 more factory engines on thieir way with Arens and Konny preparing 125's. These new 125's run right out of the box, are not that hard to set-up, run dependably and have plenty of parts available. Oh yeah, they are relatively affordable and will be more so when the dollar gains on the Euro. 125 hydro particpation is approaching 40+ drivers. I see no reason that this class cannot push the agenda of all outboard racing over the next several years. The number one priority is to grow particpation, wherever we can find it.

Just as important is having a class for our children to run. ASH/ ASR have been the bedrock clases for SO for over 50-60 years (my opinion). But JSH/JSR builds our future particpation and grooms our future drivers. To me J classes are most important. So hold on.... and I cannot wait to hear the responses to this one.

Either eliminate the Johnson/Evinrudes from A-Stock or come up with a dedicated motor for J-stock. I liked the idea of progressing from J to A with the same engine and this worked well when engines were plentiful. But that is not the situation now. I would like to see the focus on the kids. Freeing up a large number of motors could create the situation to boost particpation in the J classes.

Now do not lynch me, I am only throwing out a suggestion. At least it is a new idea. It certainly would place a priority on finding a replacement engine.

But as I said above, the leadership issue should be the priority before attacking the class woes.

David Weaver

[acr924]

Wrong Message

This thread was not started to discuss classes. If you want to discuss classes start your own **** thread! We have to stay focused on the real issue first. HOW TO BETTER PLAN OUR FUTURE! This thread is also primarily for and about Stock Outboard. I am a S.O. commisioner and cannot focus on other catagories. No issues can be decided until we have a philosophy and a goal. Thank you all for your input.
Time to go to Millville! John Runne

[BP125V]

the problem with the SO commission

Well, maybe not THE problem. But, we do have an issue that should be considered while we are trying to figure out how to manage/lead the sport. You know the old saying "If you want something done give the work to the person who already has too much to do". The SO commission, and I'm sure Mod and PRO commissions too, are made up of people who are already doing a ton of work for the sport on top of trying to race themselves. Whether involved at the club/region level, building boats building engines, working on race committees etc, at the end of the day any given commissioner probably does not have that much time or energy to devote to commisson type work.

I would think that in an ideal situation the majority of leaders for a given category would NOT be active racers and therefore be able to focus more on the task at hand. Probably pie-in-the-sky, but worth thinking about. Maybe we could try to entice retired drivers to stay involved this way.

Bill III

PS I was sadened to read Modracer7B's comments about turning people away from the sport, here are 2 examples of why I think he should not do this.
1. In 1987 I was dead convinced that I thought SO would be gone in 5 years and told my wife (fiance at that time) so. 17 years later we are still racing.
2. In 1996 or so, soon after my first was born, Bittu Spedding asked me at Burlington, WI if I thought the sport would be around long enough for my kids to race. Well, my oldest is 9 this summer and we had way more entries the last 2 years at Burlington than we did the year Bittu asked the question.
I'm not blind to the problems, but turning people away certainly does not help.

[ryan_4z]

Bill,

I think that having retired drivers on the commission would be a great idea. I'm sure we can all think of quite a few off the top of our heads that would be great at it and that we would really trust to do a good job. What kind of incentives could we offer to entice some of the more expeirienced ex-racers to get involved at that level?

[acr924]

Ryan, Get off the computer and find a JOB! You can't afford to pay attention!Have a nice weekend we're going racing. dad

[PopPop]

? Dying Sport

I agree with Ryan and Bill III. Mr Rosado you gave foolish advise and possibly cost the sport a couple of new members. I started racing in 1965 and there were times when I thought I had joined in a dying sport. Since then, (39 years later), my son went racing and now my grandson, Greg Lyons, is enjoying the game. Some of us do get up to Thompson and have been to Taughton.

Regards to all, Phil Doerle