Problem Solving 101

[csh2z]

Over the course of the last couple of years, there has been much discussion on the future of stock outboard racing. Recent threads about 25SSR, ASH extreme tuck-under setup and other issues have inspired me to ask "what is our philosophy for success?". The answer is we don't have one.

How can we possibly make good decisions for the future of our sport if we have no vision of what that future is? What is our sport going to look like ten years from now or twenty years from now? We have no plan! I've been on the Stock Outboard Commission for the last three years and all we have done is deal with hot button issues. We face the same problems now that we did twenty-five years ago. I was on the Commission then (maybe I'm the problem). It seemed that every two years we would create a new five year plan. Of course, we would never follow through with any of them, every two years a new Category VP was elected, a new Commission would be appointed, and a new direction was taken. We've been zig-zagging through time. Its time we focus on the future and figure out a way to head in one direction. We need a goal to work towards and a way to achieve that goal.

Is the current structure of APBA designed for long-term planning? Should we be expecting commissioners to create a long-term plan? Bear in mind our commissioners currently are elected for one year terms, and it is possible for a large majority of the commission to change from year to year. Assuming that the future of S.O. should be kept in the hands of stock outboarders, what guidelines should our commission go by in order to make good decisions? Should long term planning be up to the APBA BOD?

Look at the 25SSR class. Its a mess. We could argue all day long on what to do with this class, but the truth is there is no "right" answer. We don't know what to do because we don't know what the goal is. If our goal is to reduce classes, maybe we should eliminate it. If our goal is to keep half a dozen guys racing, then maybe we should keep it. If our goal is to grow the sport, there may be an option that we have not even considered. We used to have standards as to when a class was viable. 50 active drivers and a minimum of twelve boats at the Nationals. Anything less then this would put the class into probation at which point its future would be determined by the commission. When the class was in probation, it had one more year to meet those standards or it would be eliminated. Then it was up to the drivers of that class to petition the commission for reinstatement. At which time they would have to show that the following year, the class would meet those standards. Today, we have no such standards.

What we are doing now is not working. We can fool ourselves with statistics because 2004 was a very successful year. Nothing will change until we change it.

In my opinion, we need to create an Advisory Board for the SO Category. This group should include retired as well as active racers. They will be volunteers and have to be willing to do it for the love of the sport. We need visionaries. Their goal should be to create a long-term plan for SO to succeed, and advise the commission on the steps needed to acheive that goal.

Lets discuss it.

John Runne

[SeaBat]

Problem Solving 101

John

I agree with you. I've been out of SO racing for about 40 years and was reintroduced to it again by Bill Blackwell a couple of years ago. I have noticed from following HydroRacer that there needs to be long range planning.
After all, this a sport with little or no financial gain and not knowing where it's going and what costs may be, will keep some prospective new racers when considering getting into it.

When we ran years ago (I know, I'm an old senile f--t) it was much easier to get into racing. There were fewer, well defined classes, and the rules were fairly stable. Today, by trying not to offend anybody, we are probably keeping classes running that that should be on probation, or combined with another. Sometimes it's necessary to make those hard choices for the overall health of the sport.

I hope I have not offended or really ticked off anyone, I am kind of on the outside looking in, but it would be good to get some serious thought in writing, about where we, as a group are going. I have no axe to grind, my only interest is to keep the sport alive, stable and healthy for future generations.

Bill Thomas (SeaBat)

[HRTV]

Truth Hurts !

Very well said John, I agree with you 100% what I find even more interesting about this post is the lack of views and the lack of instant replies. Had this post been about Jim Apel or some other boat builder cheating a person out of there money or not delivering a boat on time this post would have already received over 1000 views and a ton of replies.

I guess the truth hurts! The number of views and replies to the post say it all. Funny how no one wants to touch this topic.

[bfitz]

I agree too. I think they(the governing body) should be doing things like making rules and combinig classes, and looking for new engines so that it is EASIER for people to race. If a class drops out because of lack of paticipation, then there was a reason for it. Combine the stuff where it'll fit closest, and move on. That's my opinion.

[modracer7b]

Dead Ears

The reason I did not reply is that I have advocated basically the same thing as BFitz just stated for over 15 years and it has continually fallen on dead ears. In fact I was pretty much ignored and at times ridiculed for those views. I just decided to stop hitting my head against the wall.

- Bill Rosado

[vislaguy]

new guy input

well I am brand new to this sport and heres my take on it .this is a hard sport to get into and the main reason is theres no factory partisapation nobody makes factory racing motors to just go out and buy,you have to try to find them used .you have lots of stock classes that are for motors no longer produced and from the looks of it nobody is going to start anytime soon.yamato is the only good thing going for stock racing right now.when I first started to look at classes for us I thought S.O would be the easyest and cheapest way to go. was I wrong mod classes are way easyer and less exspensive to boot,it shouldent be that way. why cant the rules change to adapt to the way things are now , since you cant buy a new stock motor change the rules like this,heres a few for example 25xs,44xs why could you not just let someone run a fishing head on any tower with the same hight as a 25xs and a yamato foot and get rid of all those dumb rules about shrouds , nuts ,bolts covers and all that other crap you have to have on those motors.you still would have a stock powerhead motor and it would be a cheap motor to build but for someone new they would not have to worry about engine mods to be competitive. If they wanted they could build there own motors for 1000.00 or so.If you want new blood you need to make some classes that are easy and cheap to get into and this is very easy to to if the people in charge would change there thinking just a little it can be done! tell me why in could not. mike

[Joe J]

When stock outboarding was in it's heyday, anyone who had a desire to race could go down to the local Mercury dealer and buy a complete, race ready rig. Where does that same person go today?

And once someone does get into the sport, they are in the back of the class. We all know that a STOCK engine will not be competitive in the division by the same name. This is probably one reason that so many newer drivers do not stay around.

I believe either Dana Holt or Dean Sutherland have stats that go back a ways. It would be interesting to see the percentage of stock drivers that are new within the last few years.

We really need to find a way to market our sport to the general public. And using older, out of date engines is not the way.

Joe Johnson

[HYDRO21Z]

Another view

I see alot about new people into the sport and all the reasons that state
why there are so few. Well I consider myself one of those new people. I
started only 5-6 yrs ago. I bought my first yamato as a lake toy because
it was cheaper than a fishing motor to put on my old Butts Aerowing that
Pop Augustine gave me. I then went to my first race to buy parts to put
the boat on the water. Once I saw a race I was hooked "Man I gotta do
this!" I then learned from my new friend John Runne my Butts was not gonna
be competitive, so I found a used GP csh and jumped into the frey!
I have spend lots of time and some money to become competitive in the
sport, perhaps the reason "newbies" like myself stop racing or don't start
is the lack of competitive drive. I won my first CSH overall this summer
(Thats 5 Years after starting)and boy was it satisfying!
I agree we need a long term plan and I would give any amount of time within
my means to help accomplish this, but few racers know me and running for
office for me is a waste of time because it seems if you do not have multiple titles and lots of wins your knowledge and desire do not compare to the well known names in the sport. ( less respect for your contributions) I love this sport and want to see my son in it when he is my age. I have no answers just alot of energy and desire. John has a good
idea lets find a place to have a "town meeting" and create the answers no matter how painfull they may be.
Just another rookies opinion!
Dennis 21Z

[Cameraboy]

Great post, John

All I can add at this moment (with some very raw nerve endings) is that I have seen some very self-serving, short-sighted thinking in outboard racing the last seven days (and not just on this list).

We're completing our second season. Quite frankly, the fun quotient at times has way more to do with the friends you make and hang out with than doing the racing. Vislaguy is absolutley right - this is a really hard sport to break into as a first generation team, unless you have some experienced and kind people willing to take you under their wing for the first few years. Our team has been blessed with that - how many folks give up because other folks are too busy chasing points to give them a hand or encouragement?

It gets real discouraging to work your butt off trying to go fast, only to have folks continually "tweaking" rules to slow folks down. Decide how fast a class should be, set it, leave it alone, and have a path in place for folks who migrate to something faster, and a plan for when the class inevitably "breaks out" of the desired speed range. No more of this off-the-cuff rule making rule making - let's get some research and planning behind it.

Sorry about venting - it was a rough weekend.

[csh12M]

I agree with your post 100% John...

I know you and I have had this same conversation many times....our system is set up to be reactive and not proactive. I was very disappointed when the original APBA plan 2000 was never implemented. If it was we would of had a full time paid individual (Outboard Competition Director). In my opinion this person would of been charged with working with the three different commissions to devlop a long term plan. Not just for the individual commissions, but also with some thinking accross the categories. I still beleive theis is the right approach. I also think this could of been the first step towards compination between the 'Kneel down" catagories. The org chart would have the outboard competition director on top, with the category chairman reporting to him and the commissions under them the same as today. After working with the commission the OCD would set a five and ten year strategy and then challenge the commissions to develop the specific plan to get their. Example...if their are to many classes in stock it could be deceided that by 2009 we will get down to A,B,C,D runabout and hydro. Then let the commission deceide how to get thier. If the strategy is developed and communicated with the members early enough I think we can avoid losing people as a class goes away. They have five years to prepare and transition. I think if we were to look at where we are now and where we would want to be in five years, it would be easy to deceide which classes may go.....

Unfortunatlily, this is an organization of volunteers and I do not think their is enough $ to build such an organization. I would add however, we do a better job than most people are giving us credit for. I work for a public software company....I can tell you we are a lot more reactive than proavtive as well. It is hard to drive this kind of change, and it will not happen overnight, but if we keep these ideas in mind at our meeting and continue to try and act as positivly as we can, who knows....someday we just might get their.

Later,
12

[dholt]

Amen!

The voice of reason has risen from the south.

John hits the nail right on the head on many counts. How do we define success in stock outboard...and once we define that...what is the plan to achieve success?

Every year is about putting out fires...with less time taking a broad look at the category as a whole. It certainly would help if the Stock chairman had at least a 2 year term...with commissioners serving the same length of term. Shoot, 3 years would be even better.

The list of problems in the category is rather lengthy...and many are so intertwined it's hard to separate them. I believe the top two problems are:

1. Lack of new/available engines.
2. Lack of Participants.

Trouble is...you can't solve one without the other. If we had more drivers, there aren't enough motors to supply them. But who's going to build a bunch of motors without a large market to sell them to?

The engine issue does have upside. Yamato 302 is still new. The Hot Rod is getting revamped and motors should be readily available soon in several speed/class ranges. The Bass 'D' is out there. The Merc 44XS is available from Dave Scott. And the Merc 15 is there for 'J' and AXS.

Personally, the used engine availability issue isn't as bad as some would make you think. I could have bought 7-10 Yamato 102's this past year...7-9 Y-80's, 4-5 OMC's and a couple Hot Rods. Equipment is out there. It's just up to a current member to help a prospective member find the stuff...and make sure it's not junk. We ALL share in that responsibility.


#3 Issue----What is success in Stock Outboard?

Success probably means different things to different people. But my simple definition of success for stock racing is to have 8 or more boats in each class at every local race...and classes nationally that have a minimum of 70 drivers.
It also means being able to run a race in 6 hours with all the stock classes.

Now, how do you get there?

No one likes to seriously implement class reduction rules, but let's get real here. It must happen as long as certain classes continue to struggle. I'd institute some measure of minimum standards for a class to remain viable in SO. 50 members? 30? 20? What is the number? That's the big question. I would say 25.

The other way other than the Governing body eliminating a class is by getting the actual drivers to stop running a class. How do you do that? By eliminating the "national" status and national rewards it receives. I submitted a proposal last year that handicapped classes for Hall of Champion points based on participation. Basically, a class with 20 national participants wouldn't receive the same 5 HOC points for a National High Point championship like a class with 100 boats. You can take this a step further by setting minimum participation standards for a class to win a National Championship, set a record, etc... Plus, if a class is moved to "local" status, all clubs don't feel the pressure/need to put it on a already overbooked schedule.

Now, if you can get the number of classes reduced, the pool of drivers have to get funneled more in the same direction. Plus, you'd need fewer different engines...and the engines you did need would be in greater demand...thus giving manufacturers a better opportunity to build and sell them.


Here's another short term solution idea. Take the SORC promotional fund, which is never used for promotion, and use it to buy used motors. These motors would be owned by the SORC and ONLY sold to first time/new racers. Then, when a new guy asks me..."Where can I get a OMC A or Yamato 102?", I can tell him exactly who to call instantly. (SO Chairman or whomever is in charge of sales).

Let's try some different approaches folks. This isn't 1975 anymore. As I've said to those in my club over the recent years...If what we're currently doing was working, we'd have INCREASING membership/boat totals instead of the opposite.


Dana

[14-H]

John's got it!

I think this is a great post. I also think that it reveals a problem that the current system makes worse: no Plan! We elect commissioners on what basis??? Then they go to an annual meeting, why??? That's why I supported going back to having one elected chairman elected by the members. Then we could have chairmen run on a "plan." During the election process, the members decide which plan they like the best and elect the chairman that offers the best one. That chairman should then appoint a commission that will carry out the plan that the chairman was elected for and advise the chairman how to best implement the plan according to each area of the country. While I am keenly aware that this sytem was used from '75 till '95, at least it gets the planning concept back into the organization. Right now, the whole system is dysfunctional; moreover, to the extent that there is any "plan", there are 19 of them (current number of SO commissioners). Ed.

[Big Don]

I thought I would share with all of you the opinion of a new guy that is interested in coming into our sport. I asked him to give me his opinion pro & con of our sport so I could post it. These are his word…


My opinions are probably what you have heard before. Feel free to break it down in different terms on Hydroracer or any other forum.... as I am sure you won't change the message.


From a Karter looking into Boat Racing
Pros.
1) Family sport, great family thing to do. Seems like a nicer day than at the kart track. (which could be a parking lot at some events)
2) Competitive.. Important to most people who race (sounds silly but...)
3) Seems cheaper, after your initial outflow....(No need for new tires after a weekend at $220 a set)

Cons
Motors
Biggest sticking point. Why can't I get into the classes I want to race without the opportunity to purchase my engine brand new and be competitive. If it is a stock class, everyone should run the same motor and you should be able to purchase it brand new. I guess I understand the Yamato is the best, but if you can't go to a manufacturer or a shop and purchase one brand new, or parts, why run it? It is very intimidating for a newbie to drop $1200 - $1500 for a motor that "has a hole in it, but that has been welded and Zed said that's ok, they all have holes in them." Especially someone coming from karts who can purchase a brand new, basically bullet proof blueprinted Briggs or Yamaha and have another on the trailer. After three seasons in karting I had three nice engines.. (only recommend two but three looked cool!)

Boats
Not as big a deal as the motor issues because I realize they are hand made and not mass produced but again, it is very intimidating buying a used boat. Karts are mass produced so the Coyote or Margay chassis that I am driving is the same as yours. (then practice, experience, set up will make me faster than you) I have heard to many stories of people driving great distances to buy a boat that just didn't work out. Not that the person shafted the buyer... it just didn't handle as well as, lets say their existing boat.

Classes
After equipment would be classes, and boat racing has nothing on karting when it comes to this problem. However, it does lend to the confusion factor. If there are so many classes that go, lets say within three MPH of each other, why so many classes. I attended two races to get a good understanding of what boat racing is all about. And it surprised me to see so many heats of 3-4 boats, racing similar speeds and similar types of drivers. Less classes, bigger class size, and better chance of someone, after driving 7 hours to get to a race, to have a competitive heat. Sure would be awesome to see 10 racers racing 3-4 laps.

[bfitz]

I have been ridiculed for my opinion and hereby withdraw it.

[pops67g]

If we continue with the current way of thinking about classes that means if the Bass D motor should begin to sell and not be competitive the people that bought one would start petitioning to have the Bass run in a class by itself. Would that be E stock hydro?