Boat wood quality.

[bill boyes]

Good info. Dean. The key word here is China.

[Smitty]

I shoulda figured Dean would know this . . . doh!

Thanks, Dean.

[modhydro]

1088 vs 6566

One thing to save some money but still be safe is to use 6566 for 3mm or 4mm. In those thicknesses to have thin face veneers, the center one would be too thick for normal manufacturing. The stuff I get from Noah's in Toronto has always been very good. They are the ones who put me onto the 3mm and 4mm savings idea. For the 5mm and 6mm though stay with 1088. I think another thing is that the face veneers of 1088 is only allowed a smaller number of "blemishes" such as pin knots and grain figure per square foot. I actully prefer the nicer grain figure on the 6566. It has far more character, at least until it gets painted. If you shop around just be sure that you know what you are getting. All of the stuff I have gotten from Noah's has been Okume throughout.

Steve Roskowski

[johnsonm50]

One thing to save some money but still be safe is to use 6566 for 3mm or 4mm. In those thicknesses to have thin face veneers, the center one would be too thick for normal manufacturing. The stuff I get from Noah's in Toronto has always been very good. They are the ones who put me onto the 3mm and 4mm savings idea. For the 5mm and 6mm though stay with 1088. I think another thing is that the face veneers of 1088 is only allowed a smaller number of "blemishes" such as pin knots and grain figure per square foot. I actully prefer the nicer grain figure on the 6566. It has far more character, at least until it gets painted. If you shop around just be sure that you know what you are getting. All of the stuff I have gotten from Noah's has been Okume throughout.

Steve Roskowski

Another thing with thin veneer is when you scarf join there's some inevitable sanding. For fine natural finishing care needs to be taken to not only align flat & exact but not to over sand.

[propnuts]

True but not true

It is a no-brainer to conclude that the wood today is not as good as it was, though if you know where to look and are willing to spend the money on 12 grain spruce and 1088 okume you can still get it. We haven't heard from the builder of the exploding boat, but I know the guy and highly doubt he used poor material. This looked to my eye like a pretty clear case of rot, with the possible inclusion of some frame/stringer weakening through drilling extra holes. THAT is what got my attention, you can take a really solid frame, drill a hole for a floorboard, then another, then another, let water get in there, wait a couple years and BAM, EBS.

[blueskyracer]

One thing to save some money but still be safe is to use 6566 for 3mm or 4mm. In those thicknesses to have thin face veneers, the center one would be too thick for normal manufacturing. The stuff I get from Noah's in Toronto has always been very good. They are the ones who put me onto the 3mm and 4mm savings idea. For the 5mm and 6mm though stay with 1088. I think another thing is that the face veneers of 1088 is only allowed a smaller number of "blemishes" such as pin knots and grain figure per square foot. I actully prefer the nicer grain figure on the 6566. It has far more character, at least until it gets painted. If you shop around just be sure that you know what you are getting. All of the stuff I have gotten from Noah's has been Okume throughout.

Steve Roskowski

I totally agree with Steve and there prices are great to.

[B Walker]

Quality of wood was not an issue here.

Design details and condition of the wood are up for discussion.

I am convinced that any CSR that suffered the same left chine failure that this boat did, at the same place on the race course would have experienced the same result.

I dont care who made it, who was driving it, or what it was made of.

Steering and turn fin failures in a CSR always do the same thing when they happen in a turn. The nose comes up, the outside edge catches, and it snap rolls to the outside. Hard.

In my opinion this type of wreck is generally more violent and severe than a blowover, especially because of the torque and high center of gravity of a Yamato 102/302

If your unlucky, you twist 90 degrees and a wall of solid water goes into the cockpit. Depending on speed and angle of impact this force can very easily blow out every joint nose to transom. Fortunately, this is not a common occurrence.

After talking with eyewitnesses and looking at all the pictures I am convinced this is what happened. Whatever amount of dry rot there was or wasnt could be called a contributing factor at best.....but not a reason.

You would have to say there was so much dry rot that the left chine fell off. That much dry rot would have been seen during the pre-acceptance inspection.

All this pie-in-the-sky conjecture is good for wasting a few hours of entertaining discussion here on Hydroracer.

But this is a fact: that boat was faaaaaasst and easy to drive, a very unusual combination for a CSR.

The truly important thing is that nobody was hurt significantly and I am thankful for that.

Brad Walker
former owner, builders helper, assistant to the assistant designer of the boat in question

[17W]

Hey Reed.....

They refer to it as EBS!

At least you guys have some wood to start a fire with.......

[Smitty]

of a Yamato 102/302


All this pie-in-the-sky conjecture is good for wasting a few hours of entertaining discussion here on Hydroracer.


Brad Walker
former owner, builders helper, assistant to the assistant designer of the boat in question

My hope with this thread was to learn whether good boat wood is still available and from what source. As to wasting hours of your time, Brad, well . . . .

[Dave M]

Simple Answer

Yes. Decline.

Why, not sure, but ever since the hurricanes in FL several years ago I have noticed a decline in availablity and quality in Okumme plywood. I was told by Harbor that most of their Okumme went down there. I had to realyl look around to find 3MM and 5MM. And I also seen the price sky rocket after that. I found a 2002 sales receipt yesterday, I was paying under $30 a sheet for 3MM. 6MM was $39.95 each. From Harbor.

[Smitty]

My response to Brad was unnecessarily arch. I can see where he would get hot if he detected an imputation that he was designing boats with inadequate materials. And I did and do wonder about that, about whether today's "quarter-inch five-ply" (for instance) can stand up to the same loads as the wood of forty years ago . . . and of course the loads are surely greater now. I wasn't intending to single out his boat as a example, and only mentioned reading the thread about the accident as a segue to this discussion. I see I shouldn't have done that. Sorry, Brad.

[B Walker]

Very classy, thank you Smitty

I meant the comment in a bigger picture as in the hours I have spent watching youtube videos of stupid pet tricks usually done when I had something I really should have been working on.

I find Hydroracer to be informative and educational most of the time and tips and tricks to find good wood is very very helpful. Your post is what is best about this site.

Cold one of your choice on me if we ever meet up.

BW