Hydro Tuck-under

[14-H]

Previously posted by Matt D'Agostino: Mr. Chairman & Commissioners:

Ed references his out of control A Mod Hydroplane. I urge you and your safety gurus to immediatly ban the practice of drivers now tucking the torpedos under the bottom of the boats. Ed, you know the handling issue here!

You guys better legislate it away now while only a few drivers are doing it before Hemp and the rest of the builders start cranking out a bunch of these accidents waiting to happen.

It seems your goal here should be parity and safety in our so called "Stock" division........

Hey, we all like to go fast and win. But I think you need to be safe and protect the less experienced drivers so they don't mimic the daredevils who are out of control. Like NASCAR,we have to react to the teams that work around the intent of the rules.

Lets react now...........Please.

MATT

I agree. This practice is dangerous and needs to be stopped. Who wants to undertake the task to write the rule prohibiting a kick-under of greater than a quarter-of-an-inch on an A Hydro? I need some boat builders to help. Ed.

[Dave M]

R U Serious ?

A 1/4" ???? I race the FE at 5/8" tucked and have perfect control. I heard about the so called tucking under the A's. Someone please comment on how far you have to tuck to be under the bottom ? I think it might be like 1" or so ?

If you limit how far a person can tuck a motor you may run into some legal issues. When Ashley runs AH and I am limited to a 1.4" tucked and she blows over and gets hurt I will be all over you for limiting me on how to safely set up a boat. Just an example of what might happen if you limit something like tucking under.

I suggest putting a limit on the transom inset ? Then make a rule on the amount of tuck like 15/16" or something. That might stop them from going under the bottom. But a 1/4 I think is way to little given how light some A boats are........

[sponsonhead]

Wake up and smell the Red Line

This is the third most ludicrous thing I have heard all week.

When we were running A, we ran with a severe kickunder 6 years ago. Never crashed, never had a safety issue, and set two Worlds Records in the process.

Ron France has been doing this for over 15 years without it being brought up as a safety issue.

So, what has changed? I will grant you that driving a boat set up this way presents a challenge, but it can be done. If there is an individual driver or two that cannot handle their rigs, then it should be handled AT THAT LEVEL, not as a sweeping change to the people who know what they're doing.

Anything less than that and it begins to smack of sour grapes to me because somebody did some hard work and figured out how to go faster and won.

Kinda like the Yamato guys, who SAVED the class for the guys with the Merc 25SSR and now everybody's got their panties in a bunch because one of them had success.

This is a COMPETITION SPORT, and you win by going fast, and occasionally taking risks.

It's this kind of thinking that will no doubt produce a Demand for NERF PROPS because somebody in Dayton cut their foot up in the pits.

R-19

[dholt]

Amen

You're right on target Pat.

Sure, ASH are kicking way under to go fast...and it can make the boat do strange things. But let's not get crazy here. How many ASH wrecks do we see? Very, very few. And who knows what they're caused by. This is not an issue.

Height rules are good. They promote safety. No one can argue that.

But a kick-in rule??? Yeah, right!


D.

[14-H]

Too much ASH tuck...

... is dangerous. I've had some experienced vetrans in this class come to me and complain about this. These guys want to win but recognize the fact that in order to do that, you've got to put a set up on your boat that is unsafe. It is a real problem and needs to be fixed. The nerf prop argument is not really a good comparison. It's more like advocating in favor of being able to run your prop height 3/8 of an inch above the bottom of the boat and insulting anyone's manhood who refuses to do it.

BTW: what were #'s 1 and 2? And don't tell me one of them isn't Ron Hill's net thing. Ed.

[14-H]

Dana's John Kerry Argument

Dana: you're contradicting yourself. Don't you get it? The kick under is solely to beat the height restriction! Ed.

[Cameraboy]

Frustrated

If the issue is that ASH is going too fast, then limit the speed for that reason and in a way that makes sense. And then leave it alone. Let's quit couching it in terms of "we need new engines" (restrictor on the OMC) or "kicking under is dangerous" (limit to X"). These new proposals to change the playing field every season get real discouraging to those of us who don't have three decades of experience or three generations of family experience to draw from.

[fitsracing]

Too much time on my hands today.

If Ed's A mod is truely out of control I wonder how he can race it and why he hasn't adusted his kickout to his recommended 1/4 inch.

What inexperienced drivers are you trying to protect?

Why does everyone refer to Nascar all the time. Last I checked we race boats with no factory sponsorship or support. Is it surprising that we do things differently.

[14-H]

Clarification:

A Mod is a Hot Rod. It has no height restriction and I run very little kick under. Remember: Formula A is the equivalent of the modified OMC A class. I don't run A Stock Hydro. The issue is not speed: it's a dangerous set-up! Ed.

[bill boyes]

This is the third most ludicrous thing I have heard all week.

When we were running A, we ran with a severe kickunder 6 years ago. Never crashed, never had a safety issue, and set two Worlds Records in the process.

Ron France has been doing this for over 15 years without it being brought up as a safety issue.

So, what has changed? I will grant you that driving a boat set up this way presents a challenge, but it can be done. If there is an individual driver or two that cannot handle their rigs, then it should be handled AT THAT LEVEL, not as a sweeping change to the people who know what they're doing.

Anything less than that and it begins to smack of sour grapes to me because somebody did some hard work and figured out how to go faster and won.

Kinda like the Yamato guys, who SAVED the class for the guys with the Merc 25SSR and now everybody's got their panties in a bunch because one of them had success.

This is a COMPETITION SPORT, and you win by going fast, and occasionally taking risks.

It's this kind of thinking that will no doubt produce a Demand for NERF PROPS because somebody in Dayton cut their foot up in the pits.

R-19

We run the C-21 Bezot 1/2 to 5/8 tucked. if we tried to run Parallel it would be OUT OF CONTROL. I have built 3 Bezot CSH kits and they all run best at 1/2 to 5/8 tuck.

[dholt]

You don't say

Ed,

Of course the kick in for ASH is skirting the height rule. You think I've been sleeping the last 10 years?

But ASH is still in control much more so than the old Merc days. And yes, the extreme kick in can make some boats tougher to drive, but not all. If you've got the complete package, it's not a problem. Right prop? Right lift? Right boat period. How many accidents are we seeing in ASH because of extreme kick in?? Good God, my BSR breaks loose at 1 3/8" deep in certain water with certain props! And our Racecrafts have the torpedo under the bottom of the boat. Should we ban that design too!?

Let's exercise a little common sense and a little less government.

Is W. listening?

[Haüenstein]

ASH = Always S(omething) 'House

When we were running A, we ran with a severe kickunder 6 years ago. Never crashed, never had a safety issue, and set two Worlds Records in the process.

R-19

Is that the same rig that went completely out of control and almost took out a field of about ten ASHs at DePue while Bittu Spedding was driving it? That never struck me as a stable ride and certainly convinced us that the radical setups wouldn't be fun to drive. As it turns out, they aren't.

Perhaps we should get rid of the height rule to make ASH more safe.

MAH
4D

[G Stillwill]

I dont want to sound stupid here but are we talking about moving the motor forward so the torpedo is under the boat or the angle to the bottom or both. I run tucked a little to the rocker but kicked out from the bottom.

[Brian10s]

Wait a minute

Not to get into the fray alittle late but isn't there already rules in the rule book concerning unsafe rigs? I don't have my rule book on me but I know the Inspector (and maybe the Ref but not sure) can rule a rig "unseaworthy".
Now if this truely was the problem some say, and I have no idea if it is or isn't, couldn't each inspector call the entire class (and as Dave said, let's not kid ourselves that it is an "A" issue. There are many a class that are doing this) or one boat to inspection and rule it "unseaworthy" and have it beached until changes are made.

That being said, I would guess that it is now up to our Refs & Inspectors (who are over worked already but here is another slice for their plates) to work together to evaluate and rule on rig preformance and comb out those that are deamed "unsafe".

So, I guess if you break loose too often in one heat, you better not do it twice or you could get beached.

Just a thought.

Brian 10s

[DougMc]

Ed,

Let's exercise a little common sense and a little less government.

Is W. listening?

You never know.