Review needed for epoxy

[propnuts]

Maybe Montana Mike can review the Aeromarine Epoxy advertised on this site. I like the idea of a 1:1 mix, and the price is pretty decent.

[bill boyes]

Looks like 2 to 1 mix. or am wrong. I like the price. 2 to 1 is what my Sticky Stuff pump is set up for as I use System Three from Seattle.

[blueskyracer]

As much as I have spent on West System this year I could have bought twice as much of this stuff. I have also used System Three and I don't notice much difference. I am about to get some more so maybe I will give this stuff a shot. I am sure if it gets popular the price will go way up like everything else.

It's at least half the price. And you can add color. It is a 2 to 1 mix

[daveracerdsh]

Epoxy

I have been using Tap Plastics one to one epoxy for a year or so. It costs about a third less then West....very very happy with is so far. It seems to cure much better in colder temps. Just a thought.

[ZUL8TR]

epoxy

Over the years I have tried many different epoxies with different mix ratios from 1:1 to 3:1 and prefer the 1:1 mix since less chance of error with mix and easy to do with self graduated throwaway cups and no need for pumps. I have not tried the AeroMarine epoxy products. I presently have latched on to Clark Craft 1:1 epoxy. It dries crystal clear, no amime blush, sands well, not as brittle as some epoxies, takes varnish well, tests about same as other brands on under shear and tension tests and the hardner has a long shelf life. Last batch I bought back in 10/06 still cures the same as when 1st used. And it is very reasonably priced, 1 quart (1/2 quart resin +1/2 quart hardner) = $19 +S&H. This is about the same price as the 2:1 Aeromarine at $29for 1.5 quarts = $19.33 per quart +S&H so take your pick if mix ratio not a concern. Check out other price breaks for larger volumes of epoxy.

Here is Clark Craft epoxy:

http://www.clarkcraft.com/cgi-suppli...875373dad3156e

Here is AeroMarine epoxy:

http://www.jgreer.com/

Here is Clark Craft glue:

http://www.clarkcraft.com/cgi-suppli...875373dad3156e

Note that virtually all epoxies are stronger than the wood being glued and I have never seen a joint failure where the epoxy failed before the wood. If using epoxy with other materials like carbon fiber there may be advantages to different brands or epoxies specifically designed for bonding that material.

Also some brands offer different hardners to allow more flexibility for different ambient conditions and that may suggest one brand over another. The Clark Craft epoxy has only 1 hardner available but it fits most conditions.

[Mark 32]

We used MAS epoxies when we were working on larger projects requiring big amounts and the stuff worked great. The price was pretty good, it was easy to work with, and it set up nice.

[propnuts]

I just figured it out

On the front page they list 2:1 epoxy, if you click on the Epoxy Adhesives tab on the left it takes you to a page of 1:1 epoxy.

[blueskyracer]

On the front page they list 2:1 epoxy, if you click on the Epoxy Adhesives tab on the left it takes you to a page of 1:1 epoxy.

Problem is that it needs room temperature. Over here in the winter if I am lucky I can get it up to 40-50 tops in my shop when it is 0 outside. In Seattle that would not be a problem much but here in the deep woods we have a lot of cold days and especially nights during the winter

[krazy karl]

I have been using AeroMarine for a few years now. The price is great, shipping is included and fast. I have had good luck with it, sets up clear and sands reasonably well. Caveat is that I live in a cold area so it takes awhile to cure but will eventually set up completely but may take a few days. If an attempt is made to sand it before completely set it will gum up but will sand nicely when it is completely cured. It is a little bit thicker than West System but I see this as a plus. Give it a try I don't think you will be disappointed.
kk

[Mike45]

Epoxy's

I have a question and without sounding to or bad. I am refinishing a hydro for the first time ever and did not know what to coat the boat with because no one I know has any clue. So my question is: Do you use an epoxy to coat the whole boat for that deep clear look? I have tried looking for some type of marine laquer but with no luck.

I was trying to decifer if that was what all of you have been talking about.

Please be easy on me I am new to refinishing any kind of boat.

[mdaspit]

So my question is: Do you use an epoxy to coat the whole boat for that deep clear look?

The boats I have seen that have that "deep clear" look have had a couple thin coats of epoxy as a sealer, and to protect the raw wood from water, sanded REALLY well, followed by multiple coats of automotive clear coat.

Apparently the epoxy needs a cover coat to protect it from UV.

If you go to the top of the page and click on "search" and put in "finishing"
you will find posts like the following...

Here's what I copied from Daren:

Daren's Finishing Tip #1:- As you guys know, I apply epoxy with a spray gun. I bought a "cheap" HVLP set, that includes the regular sized gun and a touch up gun, both gravity feed. If I have a large area to coat with epoxy (I only use West System, but the other brands should work the same), I use the larger gun, but smaller areas, such as the rear half of the bottom, the small gun works great also. Keep in mind though, by spraying the epoxy it does tend to make a big cloud in the area you are working in, but a big fan is great help.
To spray epoxy, it needs to be thinned out, with either acetone (which flashes off faster) or lacquer thinner. I generally use acetone. Using the smaller paint gun also allows you to make more coats without the fear of a huge run, which is always a pain in the butt. I spray one "cover coat" and let it sit for 20mins, then go back and make a couple more coats. You only need to spray enough material to completely cover the wood. After that sets up for at least 24hrs in a warm environment (60 degrees or warmer) you can then sand it smooth.
A tip for you, is after your epoxy has setup for awhile, go back and take some HOT water and wash off the top coat of the epoxy, it is the amine blush, and was causes the heavy sandpaper clogging. It is the waxy residue left by the epoxy.
Daren Goehring:- Another trick for applying epoxy in cold weather, is to warm up the product (epoxy) or item the epoxy is to be applied to. I mix both parts together thoroughly in a metal jar then heat it up slightly with a heat gun. This allows the epoxy to flow smoother and allows it to "go off" much faster. Also for Karl, cleaning your paint gun after spraying epoxy is no different than when you would normally clean it after spraying auto paint...........use lacquer thinner to clean out the residue in the cup, remove the nozzle head and needle and soak them both....
Daren's Finishing Tip #2- OK, now that you got a good coat of epoxy down, it is time for the dreaded sanding!!! You first want to "wash" off your boat after your epoxy has "set up", this will remove the waxing stuff on top that contributes greatly to your sandpaper clogging up.

Now, depending on how good your epoxy application was, dictated what grit of sandpaper to start with. On mine, I start with 150grit on my 5" orbital sander. I then go through the steps with 220, then wet sand by hand with 400, then 600 grit wet/dry paper. You want to sand WITH the grain as much as possible to eliminate sanding swirls.

Usually I go back and apply another coat of epoxy, but it all depends on how aggressive your sanding skills are. You want to end off with a final epoxy finish that completely covers the grain of the wood with no "holidays" showing. That is the key to the next step........applying a clearcoat of prepping and priming for the paint you want to use.
Daren's Finishing Tip #3- OK, on to step #3.........after you have sealed all the wood grain and surfaces with epoxy and have sanded it down smooth, it is time to paint or primer. The way I go about it, is if I am going to paint certain areas of the wood, I prep that area by sanding it smooth with 400grit wet sandpaper, then apply the first coat of primer. If you want to retain the natural wood look, then you MUST sand those areas down to 800grit sandpaper. The key to a nice finish is all in the prep work, which means ....sanding!!! Once you have applied your primer to the areas you are going to paint, sand the primer down smooth to 800grit. You next will have to spray a coat of "sealer" over the primer, so that the primer does not suck up all your paint. You just need to spray a light coat. After the sealer has dried (no longer than 6hrs), it is time to apply your color/colors of choice. It is very important that after each coat of primer and sealer, that you remask those areas each time with fresh masking tape. I use 1/2" fineline tape for the edges of the graphics I apply. This creates a nice straight line, with no "bleeding". TIP.........after you have masked off the graphics that are in "sealer", go back and spray another coat of sealer. What this does is seals up the tape edges and prevents the paint from bleeding out around the tape. After that coat of sealer has dried, it is time for the color. I spray 4-5 coats of color, allowing 15minutes dry time between each coat. After the basecoat has dried for about 1hr, go back and remove all your masking tape around the graphics and revealing the natural wood finish. The final step is to apply your clearcoat. You could also use a single stage paint, eliminating the clearcoat, but I prefer a clearcoat, as it allows you to sand out any flaws, dirt, bugs, etc you might have in the final coat. I spray 4-5 coats of clear, which after it dries, you will end up sanding off probably 2 coats. This allows a good build up of clear, so when you go back to wetsand, you will not be able to feel the "edge" of the graphics......final step is the dreaded wetsanding of the clear (after it has cured for a couple days). Start with 600 grit, then progress down to 1500grit, then buff!!!! If you take your time and do the tedious amount of sanding, you will have a nice and durable long lasting finish.

As to paint, I use a mid-budget base coat (color), OMNI, but use a very top quality clearcoat, PPG Concept 2021. This clear leaves the most durable finish and is very UV protectant.........finish off your freshly polished paint job with a high quality water resistant wax..........
Sean:- Also, I don't think you are going to want to apply a wax until after the paint has fully cured (which I think takes 60-90 days). Applied too early could cause the clear to cloud.

[Mike45]

Thank You, MDASPIT.

I see I am in for a lot of sanding. I also want to thank you for the searching tip. I see I will be using that quite a bit while I learn more about the whole sport of outboard racing. Once I see how I do on the finished surface I think I may take on building a hydroplane this winter with my boys. With a kit of course by Sorensen. Or buy one that needs some work. My one boy will be needing a senior project for his graduation. And I have not yet heard of anyone building and racing a hydroplane so this may be interesting. It also may get more younger people involved in this sport.

Thanks again,

Mike Stevenson

[mdaspit]

Thank You, MDASPIT.

I may take on building a hydroplane this winter with my boys. With a kit of course by Sorensen. Or buy one that needs some work. My one boy will be needing a senior project for his graduation. And I have not yet heard of anyone building and racing a hydroplane so this may be interesting. It also may get more younger people involved in this sport.

Thanks again,

Mike Stevenson

Sounds great. I have a DVD from Sorensen, that shows the build of his CSH kit. I've watched it a million times. Send me an e-mail and I'll send it to you.

[ZUL8TR]

Refinishing

I have a question and without sounding to or bad. I am refinishing a hydro for the first time ever and did not know what to coat the boat with because no one I know has any clue. So my question is: Do you use an epoxy to coat the whole boat for that deep clear look? I have tried looking for some type of marine laquer but with no luck.

I was trying to decifer if that was what all of you have been talking about.

Please be easy on me I am new to refinishing any kind of boat.

--------------------------
As has been stated use epoxy to seal the wood but you must take off all the old finish first. See my post above on a possible epoxy.

The auto clearcoat is a good top coat but it requires spray equipment and a respirator and skill in the process. I suggest that since you are just learning the refinish game to use marine varnish. There are expensive and inespensive varnishes and you can decide on that. There is Pettit (Zspar) captains, Interlux, etc. in the area of $28/qt. I have tried them all and have now been using Minwax Helsman Spar Urathane available at walmart for about $14/qt. It has proven a great varnish that flows easy and looks deep when over epoxy.

Depending on the temp and humidity will determine if a thinner is needed. Don't varnish if raining and you do not have a temp/humidity controlled room. Mineral Spirits will do well but if you can get it I use the Pettit 120/T-10 thinner because it lets the varnish edge stay wetter a bit longer and provides better flow out for a glass like finish. The amount of thinner is determined by the flow out but 5 to 10% is the range. Do a test on a level piece of glass to get the feel and no brush marks. Use the least amount of thinner as needed so you get the flow out do not get sags on non level surfaces. Practice.

I brush on the varnish with a pure bristlle brush. Some use the foam brushes but I find them to not hold enough varnish to brush out. You try them and decide. A clean room is a must. Use at least 3 coats and wet sand between coats with 400 grit. Use a tack rag to wipe off small dust before coating. Be very particular about cleaning off dust and dust free room for the last coat.

Good luck

[Dave M]

One Caution

If you are concerned about weight, the varnish will add a lot more weight than an auto clear coat. If this is simply a fun project and not a racing project, I would reccomend a spray. A few coats of varnish can really add up if you are close to class weights.

In my experience on auto clear coats, one tack coat and good coat to finish will result in an average 2 - 5 pound addition depending if you need additional coats. It is not real hard to spray, just takes a special method that is learned easy. And Automotive Clear coats are very forgiving. Meaning if you are applying and let it tack up for 5 minutes, and you walk back in and see what looks like a dry spot, you can add right then and it will still flow out and look nice. And as Zl8tr said, you should be wearing a serious respirator.