J & AX Topics

[Big Don]

jeff55v

"National meeting agenda

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I wonder if anybody will suggest dropping the J height 2 inches lower?
Probably not."

Seriously? I can't even respond to that comment.

[HydroKyle93R]

At our last club meeting, someone brought up a "parody" issue between the Mercury and OMC. I don't recall which class, if any, was mentioned specifically.

[B1PRORACER]

Changes to the J rules ?????

My $0.02: You can't lower the height restriction and you can't decrease the size of the restrictor plates because then ALL those J PROPELLERS won't work!

[Matt Dagostino]

Hot Topics..............

J Class topics on the top of the list will be:

J Hydro and Runabout Speeds- It appears a effort will be made to slow down the two classes.

To Plug or not to Plug the tuner pipe water outlet ( Merc 15)- This will be addressed.

Motor Height- It will be discussed lowering the J hydro and Runabout height to 1 3/4" or lower below the bottom in a effort to slow the speeds some.

These are the issues our region presented to the J Class committee for consideration.

With speeds approaching 45mph and then some by the top competitors in the class many question whether the speeds for J Hydro and Runabout need to be somehow throttled back to around 40mph as to assure our youngest and most inexperienced drivers in the class are not a danger to themselves and others on the course.

[champhotrod]

No more trying to get on plane testing!

I believe that by allowing the J people this testing we are encouraging extreme set-ups that may be hard to plane off.
Just a thought.

Former J driver (once)

[BP125V]

how about????

I believe that by allowing the J people this testing we are encouraging extreme set-ups that may be hard to plane off.
Just a thought.

Former J driver (once)

or maybe as a compromise since the J classes use different props each race let them have a short on plane test session at the beginning of the day and then run a strict 3 minute gun during the race. This is really a club decision and should be announced by the club to the membership as early as possible in the season or even before the season starts. What encourages the parents to run the extreme set ups is the knowledge that that race committee would'nt dare deprive their child of a chance to race and that the race committee will hold the clock forever or have several red/black flags giving them multiple opportunities to get as close to the ultimate set up as possible and still get on plane.

I suggest that BSOA / MRC do this in 2010, talk about a time saver..... And with several new J drivers starting this year it should be interesting watching how this plays out.

Bill

[Big Don]

J Class topics on the top of the list will be:

1. J Hydro and Runabout Speeds- It appears a effort will be made to slow down the two classes.

2. To Plug or not to Plug the tuner pipe water outlet ( Merc 15)- This will be addressed.

3. Motor Height- It will be discussed lowering the J hydro and Runabout height to 1 3/4" or lower below the bottom in a effort to slow the speeds some.

These are the issues our region presented to the J Class committee for consideration.

With speeds approaching 45mph and then some by the top competitors in the class many question whether the speeds for J Hydro and Runabout need to be somehow throttled back to around 40mph as to assure our youngest and most inexperienced drivers in the class are not a danger to themselves and others on the course.

1. Agree they are going too fast for a new racer.

2. Is that not the same thing we allow the OMC's to do? (and by the way it was a mistake to allow on the OMC also) I posted once before how we fix that. Get caught plugging your water passage and your suspended for 5 years.


3. I hope we have some testing data that was done on several boats so we know it works and does not cause more headaches.

[Matt Dagostino]

Underway.............

1. Agree they are going too fast for a new racer.

2. Is that not the same thing we allow the OMC's to do? (and by the way it was a mistake to allow on the OMC also) I posted once before how we fix that. Get caught plugging your water passage and your suspended for 5 years.


3. I hope we have some testing data that was done on several boats so we know it works and does not cause more headaches.

Don
I believe the J Committee has several J families doing winter testing at the lower heights to see the speed impact and planing (typo oops) issues at the lower height!

The plugging issue is a little more complex. I agree with you, the OMC A never should have been allowed to continue on plugged!! Neither should the Merc 15!! Apparantely the language for the 'thermostat housing' in the J rules for the Merc 15 got put in wrong and left room for 'interpertation'. Hence several guys jumped on it and plugged their motors causing a real speed advantage!

Our feelings are the Merc runs hot anyway and plugging will cause long term engine damage by causing more heat in the motor! But even beyond that plugging is not a 'safety' or 'maintenance' modification as a beefed up seal, bearing or ring is considered. Plugging is for enhanced performance which takes the motors in a direction away from Stock Outboarding!!

In talking to TJ there are inspection tools available to quickly see if a motor is plugged or not.

[Big Don]

So you're saying that we should make it illegal for both engines?

[Richard Hearn]

I know this may come across wrong because it is written and not in person, but why do you say they are going too fast? I haven't been racing in quite a while. Can you post here what crashes have happened in the J class that were caused by going too fast? It seems that most crashes in the J class happen while milling, which have nothing to do with going fast...

2009 was Grant's first year in racing the J class. We were in the back of the pack for the first part of they year, and ran closer to the front towards the end of the year. At the end of the year, Grant asked me when he could go to AXS because the J class was too slow (he's 11 this year and can't move to AXS for another year). He cited going 65 mph on our jet ski and the 45 mph in the J class seemed "slow".

I'll play by whatever rules you come up with in Jan, but please don't make the class boring for our kids. I kinda like being back racing and would like to see Grant stick with it. Going slower in 2010 is definitely going the wrong way and I suspect he'll get bored with it and we'll be back at the lake on the jet ski...

PS, he's also bored with our "Junior" 4 wheeler that goes 40mph....

[csh2z]

Richard, Sell the jetski and 4 wheeler as soon as possible! Boat racing can't handle the competition!!!

[Matt Dagostino]

Omc................

So you're saying that we should make it illegal for both engines?

The OMC to me is way past the point of no return in terms of 'plugging'........being in service in Stock and J Class Racing for some 25 years. I don't see the point in going backwards with that engine but would rather look forward with the Merc 15 and not allow the same mistakes to be made again!

As far as Richard Hearn's post about the speeds of the J's, his viewpoint is certainly legit. There are some younger J Class drivers (9 and 10 year old's) that are capable of handling 45 mph rigs. My concern is for the ones who can't!! I think it incumbant on the J Class Committee to consider the lowest common denominator and make the class managable across the board and the youngest and most inexperienced drivers have to be considered!

I guess i feel our political leaders jobs are to try and legislate in part to protect ourselves from ourselves. That skill takes a balance of experience and common sense. My 30 plus years of experience tells me that 40 mph J's are a good fit! 45 mph J's with punch are to fast. But that is just my 2 cents for the day!

Happy New Year!

[Richard Hearn]

Some things to consider when deciding what to do at the annual meeting...

1. The Mercury 15 was designed to run with a thermostat. The objective of the thermostat was to keep the top cylinder running cool so it doesn't overheat (look at the passages and note that the thermostat restricts or allows water to flow through the pan pee hole based upon the engine temperature. When restricted, the water is forced up towards the top of the motor to cool the top cylinder). Whatever rule you decide to pass, please allow us to restrict water and force it to the top cylinder to cool it.

2. Most everybody NOW knows (because the Hearn’s blabbed their mouth) that totally restricting the water flow to the exhaust (and eventually to the tuner) makes the motor run MUCH faster (600 RPMs in the J class). Knowing this, there will be an attempt by some to gain this advantage unless the advantage is removed by allowing it to be restricted (I was around when the "Billy hole" got its name). There are many ways to accomplish this as there are many water passages that can be restricted to accomplish it (the thermostat housing is just one area). You can restrict it in the exhaust and at the tuner. In the 45 class I know that folks were re-welding the tuner hole and redrilling it to redirect the water off the tuner. I know others that were ceramic coating the pipes to accomplish the same thing.

Just be aware of the un-intended consequences of telling folks they can't restrict the water flow in the thermostat housing...

Nothing is more frustrating than being beat on the course because someone has an advantage that others don't. Being waxed this year by folks that had plugged their hole was demoralizing. I figured it out at Dayton in August where Grant went from last (Saturday) to first (Sunday) – unfortunately it was after the Nationals where he didn’t qualify and was ready to race up front. No matter what you decide to do with this water restriction, just make absolutely sure that others don't accomplish the same thing in just another way...

One more comment: You mention that we need to protect ourselves from ourselves. Why can't the parents slow their kids down until they are ready to handle the speed? I did this for Grant his first few races. If we take the "excitement" out of racing for the lowest common denominator, racing will cease to be exciting and will only attract folks that want a “boat ride” (Thanks Runne for your quote above: "It's RACING, not just another boat ride").

Richard

[Matt Dagostino]

Good Points..............

One more comment: You mention that we need to protect ourselves from ourselves. Why can't the parents slow their kids down until they are ready to handle the speed? I did this for Grant his first few races. If we take the "excitement" out of racing for the lowest common denominator, racing will cease to be exciting and will only attract folks that want a “boat ride” (

Richard[/QUOTE]

Well said about the other ways to plug off the motor. I am sure this issue will be well discussed in Seattle.

I don't believe the intent of the Commission should be to take the 'excitement' ouy of racing but to create a balance of safety and sanity in any given class. My personal concern in J Hydro and Runabout is that some parents may not be as responsible as you and 'slow' the rig down until the driver is ready to go faster. It is funny, J Class speeds can be debated all day long. Some feel they are to fast others think they are fine.

[Richard Hearn]

If the parents don't slow them down, the referee can then...

Food for thought. We used a radar gun all last year. The fastest we could get going without the water plugged was 37mph (JH). With it plugged, it went 42mph. The fastest I clocked Sweeney last year was 43mph (I still have 1mph to pick up this year!).

We also struggled significantly without it plugged to get Grant on plane (SIGNIFICANTLY, in fact he mentioned several times early on that he didn't want to go out because he was afraid to get the boat on plane -- you might remember the Nationals where he tried to get on plane all the way down the backstretch).

You could just drop the engine height down to 2" below and leave it plugged (this should be tested...). This would leave the power in the motor to get on plane. It would also reduce the speed some and the punch some (maybe you'll hit the 40mph mark).

It also takes away any incentive for folks to try to get around the no-plug by being creative in plugging elsewhere, and allows us to restrict water to keep the top cylinder cool. I asked Dad why we don't just put the thermostat back in and he said the motors got boiling hot with it in and they figured out 10 years ago that it needed to be removed. He also said the "restrict water in any manner in the thermostat housing" rule has been in effect every since. I guess for some reason I thought this was a new problem (why else would it only be known to a select few that plugging it helped). Guess I was wrong...

I'll be fielding somewhere between 2 and possibly 4 J drivers next year. Hence my interest in getting this right...

Happy New Year.