National meeting agenda ....

[Howie Nichols]

Personally I think the Sidewinder should be approved as a 15 & B. I think the A version should go one more year and get some more data.

Additionally I think the C class should remain as is with both 102 & 302 motors.

To me we dont have 100's of boats in all our classes anymore so why mess with A & C which do have the largest #'s in the category. Let's build our other classes that have a weak turnout first then look at the A & C to see what we can do to enhance it not kill it.

[reed28n]

Here is an idea

The CSH class is the most popular most exciting class that is the toughest to win in. Full fields every where you go. DO NOT DO ANYTHING!

You have more improtant stuff to worry about.

Sidewinder A $4500


Mercury A $3800

Plane ticket to Seatle $600

Hotel room in Seatle $600

Food and expenses $300

Flying to the meeting to get the Merc back in the A class when you could have spent your money on and approved th "A" Sidewinder and setting the sport back 50 years?

Priceless

[mercguy]

safety?????????

Thanks for backing the safety issue .... just think how many accidents we could prevent for an additional $75.

We want to mandate a $4500 new engine in 3 classes while reducing the $2500 Yamato usage?

running 4 blades would just make the driver drive even HARDER into the turns.................wrecks will still happen!!!!!!!!!!! The prop does not make the boat crash........the DRIVER does!!!!!!

PS: the 302 will still have 3 classes to race in........

[drbyrne55]

The dark days of Washington have arrived only survived by a sense of humor ... and satirical safety issues

[Tim Weber]

Mr Byrne,

I think you are fighting a losing battle concerning 4 blades props. There are too many people around who cut their teeth on 2 blades including me. I remember all too well how quickly our props boxes were obsoleted overnight.

I also know your OSY program with 4 blade technology kicks butt. You wouldn't be advocating the 4 blade change because you have a head start?

Props are not an issue we need to address. As far as I am concerned, we could go back to 2 blade Michigan wheels, short sponson Sids and eliminate side fins on runabouts.

Hey, I know I am sooo out of touch.

Tim

[drbyrne55]

Tim,
Thanks for the complement.

I think the bigger point gets missed here. Using the safety issue to bypass membership.

Personally, we are working 2 and 3 blade props and boat design for CSH.

Regards,
Dan

[Susan Rautenberg]

ummmm

It is a fact that 4/5 blades will make any boat more stable=safer.

HOGWASH!!!!! there is way more to a prop and its handling than number of blades......... rake for instance...... boat set up etc......... not a safety issue-- we still run 2 blades and three blades depending upon the course, the boat we run etc..... I have 3 blades that are worse than my two blades in handling again--- boat set up-- propeller rake and configuration
lol Dan -- going past the membership with safety-- I like your angle

[Kev43V]

Scott Reed said:

Flying to the meeting to get the Merc back in the A class when you could have spent your money on and approved th "A" Sidewinder and setting the sport back 50 years?

Pleas explain how approving the A sidewinder will set the sport back 50 years.

[Kev43V]

Personally I think the Sidewinder should be approved as a 15 & B. I think the A version should go one more year and get some more data.

Additionally I think the C class should remain as is with both 102 & 302 motors.

To me we dont have 100's of boats in all our classes anymore so why mess with A & C which do have the largest #'s in the category. Let's build our other classes that have a weak turnout first then look at the A & C to see what we can do to enhance it not kill it.

Well now. As a part of a team that spentthe better part of 5 years (3 before we showed up at our first race, 2 after)trying to get a decent A motor. So we could PARTICIPATE in this sport. I actually take offense to people that feel that we Should wait MORE years to get a GOOD out of the box motor in the A class.
Lets face it if Joe shmoo comes up to you and says he wants to start racing and he is of A class size. Are you:
A, going to sell him a A motor (and if it is your #4 or 5 motor will you tell him that? or are you going to tell him it is a good motor?)
B sell him a GOOD OMC motor
or are you just going to tell him to post on hydro and hope he gets one??

Gregg Lyons OMC, 3000 (for a 30 year old motor) or Racing outboards 4500 for brand new.
My gut tells me Gregg really is selling his GOOD motor. but we all know that is not always the case. how many newbies have been sold a bill of goods?
The majority of the potential new racers I spoke with this year want J and A stuff. Lets make it possible to sell them NEW motors. That way none of us are in the position of being the guy that led a newbie to buy a pice of crap motor. Sure not all of them are in a position to buy all new equipment so be it
Lets make it possible if they can do it.

[Howie Nichols]

Kev,
Why approve a motor for a class that had 72 participants in ASR and 103 in ASH? I dont care if someone had 1 race or 30 they are still all perticipating members of the class.

Folks keep mentioning that back in 86 the SORC adopted the OMC A and people left. What happens if the Sidewinder A is adopted? Back in 86 there were alot more participants than we had last year.

You say you can't buy a good motor and people sell off crap. This may be true, but I bet Greg's (for example) has had a lot of TLC and work done to it. Who knows how many blocks he had to go through to get it to run that well. How many hours did he put in to get it running great?

What lots of people keep forgetting is the motor is only 1 facet. You must still have a good boat, a good prop, a good set up, and be able to drive to get the whole package. I have seen many a time people buy a good motor and then not get it to run on their rig immediately, once they spend time with props and set ups it gets faster.

When I sell stuff I tell the newbie, this is not the best motor, it is good. Once you get comfortable with how the boat runs and are ready to go mix it up with the big guns then spend themoney on the motor work, until then test, test, and have fun, and save your money until you ready instead of wearing out a great motor not knowing what you are doing. I realize not all people fall into this category but more do than don't.


Regarding your statement to taking offense about having to wait and you looking for 5 years to get a good motor, then you have not had good guidance and for that I apologize. Someone should have been there to help you and say this ones good that ones not.

I have seen lots of great motors for sale on here that could have been had, some very expensive, some that are within reason so the chance has been there. Did you buy anything from Gary Lewis when he sold out? He always had top notch stuff. That is just 1 example.

IF the Sidewinder were to be approved how many people do you think are going to buy it this year lets say? 1, 5, 10, 20? Out of that how many are brand newbies, how many OMC guys are there? Do you have your $4500 check filled out waiting for a date and signature to send to Ron?

I just dont want to see the A class get hurt. Is a new motor needed, perhaps but not just yet, the numbers are still up there so there must not be to much of an issue getting parts for that 20+ year old motor.

Seattle will be interesting to say the least.

[Gunjumper]

This is nuts!

For the record, the motor I sold was my best, the one that won the Nationals in ASR and ASH this past season. I don't ever want to hear otherwise, I am a stand up guy. The darn inspection stickers are still on it from the Nationals! As for Howies comments, yes my equipment is pampered, many many blocks were used to get to that configuration, but a motor is only one peice to the puzzle! I've raced A for almost 12 years, I know who to go to for the best prop, strong engine, and fastest boat, I know how to start (sometimes!) and get around the racecourse fast, I straighten my bottoms regularly, THE MOTOR IS ONLY A PART OF THE FORMULA!!! A rip roaring OMC is only as good as the weakest link in the puzzle. Racing Outboards is able to secure you a stout competitive figure in the engine department of the formula. The rest is up to you... Greg

[26V]

Howie not to "butt in" on you and kev's discussion but.... I will anyway

1.Why approve a motor for a class that had 72 participants in ASR and 103 in ASH? I dont care if someone had 1 race or 30 they are still all perticipating members of the class.
Because the current A motor is 23 years old and needs aftermarket parts to keep running.

2.Folks keep mentioning that back in 86 the SORC adopted the OMC A and people left. What happens if the Sidewinder A is adopted? Back in 86 there were alot more participants than we had last year.
Different situation Howie, when the OMC came in the KG4 was kicked out of the class. the SORC is not droping the OMC from the A class when they make the Sidewinder A legal.

3.Who knows how many blocks he had to go through to get it to run that well.
THANKS that is the perfect reason to bring the Sidewinder in. Why should we have to buy umpteen number of blocks or motors to find/ build/ tweek to get one good one?

4. What lots of people keep forgetting is the motor is only 1 facet. You must still have a good boat, a good prop, a good set up, and be able to drive to get the whole package.
Yes so lets make it so that a new racer can buy a good motor and let them work on the rest of the equation. It is very frustration to work your ass off and then finaly someone might .. maybe.. if they like you...let you know that " you know your motor just may not be strong enough"

Let me ask you this Howie, what is the Harm of making the A Sidewinder Legal? The only Harm would be if it dominated the A class next year. That would run some racers off to other classes or divisions. so far it has not Dominated at the races this year. It is running with the Good OMC's but you have to have the start to do that.

[26V]

Well said Greg.

[Joe J]

Everyone is worried about driver's leaving if the Sidewinder is approved. Ok, I can see that point BUT,,,,,,,,,,

I think we should also be worried about Racing Outboards leaving if they are NOT approved. If that were to happen, then where would we be in 5 years when all of our OMC's are really worn out????????

Joe Johnson

[Big Don]

How do you qualify many? How are we going to reach them? You talked to how many? How many were tire kickers and how many were serious racers? What class was their target? Did you find a speed range they were particularly interested in? What was their average age? Was it parents looking to get their kids into the sport or themselves? Kev, Don’t take these questions the wrong way. My point is unless you know your target customer (I know everyone is a customer) and have market research and data we are spinning our wheels. And then what are we going to do with that data. How are we going to get lets say 3000 members into our sport. Think that is crazy? 3000 out of 300 Million plus??? Is that unthinkable?

Did you know that the Millennial (born after 1981) generation accounts for a third of the U.S. population, making them the largest generation ever. Granted many of them can’t afford a race boat but can and will their parents? Should we target them?

How many of them were willing to spend over 12000.00? (And that is probably low) for a new ASH rig?
4500.00 Engine
4500.00 Boat
1000.00 Saftey equipment
1050.00 3 props that may or may not work
1500.00 Trailer

I did a down and dirty survey of 30 people that report to me here at work. I asked them to be open minded as possible and I was just looking for their thoughts. Ages 23 to 55. Both men and women. I gave them a brief understanding of our sport, several know really well what we do/race. I told them it would cost 10,000.00 to get into it. What if it were 5000.00 would that change your mind?

My question was would this be something you would even consider?

Not one person was interested or even thought they ever would be. About half of them have kids.

Price was not a factor for wanting to get into it for this group. Two guys said that 5000.00 would be easier to swallow then 10000.00. But they were not interested.

Most common fear is safety. Every single mom thought I was nuts for letting my kids race.

One family races BMX bikes.

One family races go karts and said the same thing John Runne said he has heard… You drive how far to a race? We drive 30 minutes to our track and can do it any night we choose. He agreed the cost was not out of line compared to other forms of racing but he thought it was over priced for what you get. Several others thought we were nuts for driving 4 hours to race.

One guy drag races cars. He said it’s cool but something he would not even consider. He thought it was over priced.

The ones that really know what we do said stuff like… there is no way I could put the time in like you do. You work on the stuff all the time. You are gone every weekend. (So I would put all that in a time category)

My reason for all this post…I’m not sure…I’m not sure any of us have the right answer… I’m not sure what is right anymore…

Problem I see is we are so close to this it’s hard to remove your self and look at it from the outside. We all have our own preconceived ideas and that makes it very difficult.

One thing I do know is we have a great bunch of people and everyone thinks they are doing what right and good for our sport. That makes it difficult to move in any direction.