National meeting agenda ....

[drbyrne55]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Team B&H
I stand by my position that the SORC has done NOTHING for the 302 to help give it an advantage over the 102 in CSH. Every change they have cooked up for "safety" has been done to both motors equally. They dropped both motors to 1/2 inch from level and then dropped both to 3/4 inch later. Then they allowed bluprinting of cylinder heads to let everyone get to minimum CC but they allowed that for both motors. Now if they would have allowed only the trick blueprinting of the 302 heads or set the 102 height at 1 inch or added 20 pounds to a CSH with a 102 or allowed dry towers on the 302, I wouldn't argue, but they have done absolutely nothing unique to the 302 to give it any performance advantage a new motor should have. Montoya sits with a barn full of motors because most guys are still looking to build or find the ultimate 102. They worry about helping the sidewinder contingent to theoretically blanket the Stock racing field with their motors but won't do anything to help Ricky recoup his investment.

Perrman did win twice so the record is 11 Nationals wins for the 102 since the 302 was approved and 2 for the 302 in CSH. That's competitive? Records- have any been set with a 302 in CSH? Those commissioners have been doing a fine job getting the available engine to be the choice not just new cannon-fodder for the best of the 102 contingent, haven't they?


How about allowing ANY propeller without limiting blade numbers in CSH on the 302 ONLY. It may be no advantage at all but something for the 302 and not the 102?

C. STOCK OUTBOARD CLASSES
An outboard motor is defined as a complete combustion power and propulsion unit that can be attached to a boat and which can be lifted bodily by
human power from the hull as one unit. Batteries used for ignition and starting, tachometer, throttle control and steering arrangements are excepted.
Only one motor shall be used on a hull. There shall be only one propeller of three (3) blades or less.

[sam]

I think the prop blade rule is to try to help hold down costs ... an ecomonic equalizer

[crfabbro2F]

Not allowing more than 3 blades in stock never made sense! Keep costs down?
When that rule was written a competitive motor in any class was $500-1000 and
now its $2000-5000. The prop is the cheapest piece of the pie and the price today
is not much different than it was 20 years ago.

[drbyrne55]

Not allowing more than 3 blades in stock never made sense! Keep costs down?
When that rule was written a competitive motor in any class was $500-1000 and
now its $2000-5000. The prop is the cheapest piece of the pie and the price today
is not much different than it was 20 years ago.

Thank you for supporting the idea .... Correct .... people are spending much more money on non-prop items. An extra blade costs an $50 to $100. I proposed it last year and my commissioner probably was laughed out of the room. I'll keep proposing it but this year I'll make specific to CSH 302. I don't buy the cost factor but I'm sure all the 3 generation prop holders might be gun shy!

It is actually a safety issue

[Howie Nichols]

If memory serves me right (and sometimes it doesn't) It was Craig Dewald himself that asked the SORC to limit props to 3 blades so the costs did not skyrocket. I know it is know one of the cheapest parts of the package (if you only buy 1) but people already complain about the costs of the motor being high. I know the 302 is cheaper than the sidewinder but it still adds up.

What is the real cost of a 302 now (I don't know)?

$2100 - motor
$125 - Fuel pump conversion
$125 - Gear case Profile
$125 - Prop shaft
$100 - Mill Head
$100 - Fuel tank if you convert it

Is this correct?

How much are the 4 blades people are buying now for Mod & Pro vs a 3 blade?

I say NO to 4 blades on a 302 (and I am considering buying a 302)

[mercguy]

Thank you for supporting the idea .... Correct .... people are spending much more money on non-prop items. An extra blade costs an $50 to $100. I proposed it last year and my commissioner probably was laughed out of the room. I'll keep proposing it but this year I'll make specific to CSH 302. I don't buy the cost factor but I'm sure all the 3 generation prop holders might be gun shy!

It is actually a safety issue

not all of us can afford to buy 30 props like you can............ If your 4 blades are that much better and antiquate your 3 blades, I will give you $100 for each of your 3 blades.........

PS: the 302 DOES NOT need any more advantages over the 102...............

PSS: the MOD division needs to make the Tohatsu a LEGAL motor in 750. I have compiled a years worth a race data (of which the commission wanted) and it PROVES the Tohatsu does not beat the Merc Dmod motors, but does allow the class to grow (especially in Reg10), without the Tohatsu, the DMH class would die in Reg10.........

[Racerkyle20]

[QUOTE=mercguy;144868]not all of us can afford to buy 30 props like you can............ If your 4 blades are that much better and antiquate your 3 blades, I will give you $100 for each of your 3 blades.........

PS: the 302 DOES NOT need any more advantages over the 102...............
QUOTE]

I'll take one too! And i'm pretty sure a 302 wins a lot more nationally now more then ever....so more advantages would make no sense to me...

[drbyrne55]

If memory serves me right (and sometimes it doesn't) It was Craig Dewald himself that asked the SORC to limit props to 3 blades so the costs did not skyrocket. I know it is know one of the cheapest parts of the package (if you only buy 1) but people already complain about the costs of the motor being high. I know the 302 is cheaper than the sidewinder but it still adds up.

What is the real cost of a 302 now (I don't know)?

$2100 - motor
$125 - Fuel pump conversion
$125 - Gear case Profile
$125 - Prop shaft
$100 - Mill Head
$100 - Fuel tank if you convert it

Is this correct?

How much are the 4 blades people are buying now for Mod & Pro vs a 3 blade?

I say NO to 4 blades on a 302 (and I am considering buying a 302)

A Dewald 3 Blade is $350 and a 4 Blade $400. Your saying $50-75 is not worth the added safety? Wow ... I hear people spending more than that on decals!!!!

My conversations with Craig would indicate he feels 4/5 bladers are actually a safer prop to run .... period. Remember it's a safety issue.


I'm just looking to support Sam on a specific issue I think they should be allowed in all Stock classes.

[crfabbro2F]

It is a fact that 4/5 blades will make any boat more stable=safer.

[csh2z]

I remember all the s__t the commission had to here when we dropped the "C" down a quarter inch and you want to obselete everybodies prop box?
Come to think of it, you were one of the most active complainers on Hydroracer.
I'm not going to say it'll never happen, but I doubt it'll be any time soon.

[seanp3]

I remember all the s__t the commission had to here when we dropped the "C" down a quarter inch and you want to obselete everybodies prop box?
Come to think of it, you were one of the most active complainers on Hydroracer.
I'm not going to say it'll never happen, but I doubt it'll be any time soon.

I don't think complainer is the right word. We did have to tweak every one of our props and have new ones made to run at the 3/4" depth. In fact I don't believe we use any of the 3 bladers we used at the 1/2" depth. Our 4 bladers really don't give a speed advantage over the 3 bladers, however, they do allow for a much better ride.

[drbyrne55]

I remember all the s__t the commission had to here when we dropped the "C" down a quarter inch and you want to obselete everybodies prop box?
Come to think of it, you were one of the most active complainers on Hydroracer.
I'm not going to say it'll never happen, but I doubt it'll be any time soon.

Obsolete? Glad it would be a safety issue loophole

Friendly banter ...

Don't worry about obsoleting old CSH props, I'm sure Stimulus Funds are available to retool. Lobbyists still welcome ... no change

[Howie Nichols]

A Dewald 3 Blade is $350 and a 4 Blade $400. Your saying $50-75 is not worth the added safety? Wow ... I hear people spending more than that on decals!!!!

My conversations with Craig would indicate he feels 4/5 bladers are actually a safer prop to run .... period. Remember it's a safety issue.


I'm just looking to support Sam on a specific issue I think they should be allowed in all Stock classes.

I said nothing about it being a safety issue or not. I have run 3, 4, & 5 blade props on my tunnel and yes the prop of choice was a 4 blade, it had a lot better handling. The 5 blade had monster acceleration but the 3 blade was faster on top end just not around the course.

The point was many years ago Craig himself was the one that asked the SORC not to approve 4 blades.

[Matt Dagostino]

Hum..................Darren

PS: the 302 DOES NOT need any more advantages over the 102...............

What do you base this opinion on?? Do you feel the two engines are equal in performance on a NATIONAL level??

[drbyrne55]

I said nothing about it being a safety issue or not. I have run 3, 4, & 5 blade props on my tunnel and yes the prop of choice was a 4 blade, it had a lot better handling. The 5 blade had monster acceleration but the 3 blade was faster on top end just not around the course.

The point was many years ago Craig himself was the one that asked the SORC not to approve 4 blades.

Thanks for backing the safety issue .... just think how many accidents we could prevent for an additional $75.

We want to mandate a $4500 new engine in 3 classes while reducing the $2500 Yamato usage?