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cut suit certification rule?????

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  • #61
    Reduce the rhetoric -implement rigourous process

    Nobody should want to throw out the rule book, go back to shorts/T's, a Nanny state/governing body, to restrict responsible alcohol consumption(Don, thanks for the biology course, I'll reduce to 10beers/day).
    Everyone wants to race safe, lower premium/equipment costs, the guy in the next boat not to adversely impact their enjoyment/competition/safety.
    Insurance Co's have self interest to enforce risk reduction, reduce payout potential, and will incessantly threaten with premium increases to drive their agenda, increase revenues/reduce loss payouts. It's a business, built on profit/return to S/H's through reduced losses, and we should always expect those demands. Their self-interest mandate needs to be resisted. But it's our responsibility to adequately self-police and demonstrate the implementation of current rules.
    Safety is a motherhood topic, 'never too safe'. However, are we at a point of diminished returns? Implementing additional criteria/stipulations beyond current regulations may have minimal additional safety benefit, but significant increase to racer costs. Insurance Co will never admit this, or have little interest about racer costs(to a limit). Safety Cmtee needs to research cost/benefit, seek 'experts'(Wartinger), for informed facts/opinion, not racer hearsay/anecdotes.
    Local club Inspectors must inspect gear beginning of season or each race. Either decline/approve a racers participation at beginning of season, and put questionable racers on watch/infraction list prohibiting racing until gear has been repaired, replaced and inspected, and removed from list. Need to prevent racers dodging inspectors, going to different venues to avoid consistent enforcement.
    How can this be so difficult in this day/age? Club/Nat'l inspectors should have an Inspector-only access web database to add/remove racers with infractions; no access available to other racers, inspectors only. They must enforce consistent standards/interpretations nationally. Most racers with sub-standard/non-spec equipment is likely aware of their deficiencies, and racing on borrowed time/$; it will not be a surprise to them to be listed. Those currently w sub-std gear should be budgeting/ordering for repair/replacement now for 2011/12 season, rather than sliding by. The few racers abusing regulations put the rest at risk of higher premiums. If an accident/injury occurs due to sub-std equipment, we all pay. If they get hurt due to their own negligence, tough sh-t. Most racers understand the risks and we mitigate them with investing in proper gear.
    Current rules/process must be enforced nationally, with a master infraction list accessed by all inspectors, and they need to be accountable to the responsibilities which their role demands.
    To Inspectors, hard as it is to kick your buddy off the racecourse, do it for the rest of us. Most do a great job, and we're grateful, and support you! If they cannot afford gear then borrow from a buddy, otherwise stay off the course.
    Q: Are the equipment manufacturers driving the frequent recertification agenda/requirement?... there are too few of them, with obvious vested interest to drive this. At the same time, we're grateful they supply our sport. The supplier re-cert step also reduces the inspector judgement call to pass/fail gear; do we want that?

    Need to make a real effort with firm policy/process to enforce current gear inspection rules in 2010. SO Safety Cmtee to implement a nat'l racer safety registry. Why can't this be done?? APBA/SO can track all members/fees/classes/points, why can't an inspection pass/fail be tracked??...just need another column on the list.
    If that's not working, only then seek remedy for new process. If due to behavioural inadequacies current rules are not being implemented, new ones will not be either, and it opens the door for Insco's to hike premiums. Shame on us if we can't do this.

    Good luck in Detroit, and have a good 2011 season!
    Last edited by hydroid; 01-28-2011, 01:52 PM.
    Stock Outboard Racing!....because other sports,....golf, football, baseball, etc....only require one Ball!

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    • #62
      How about???

      Lifeline and SRP do the right thing for the folks that keep them in business. Free certification to the original purchaser of their safety gear? I can understand charging some sort of fee to a person who has second hand gear.

      Can you believe I'm suggesting such a thing??????
      Bill Dingman "The road to hell is paved with good intentions."

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      • #63
        Originally posted by Team 222R View Post
        Lifeline and SRP do the right thing for the folks that keep them in business. Free certification to the original purchaser of their safety gear? I can understand charging some sort of fee to a person who has second hand gear.

        Can you believe I'm suggesting such a thing??????
        Sounds right to me. We bought two complete sets with helmets for $3000 and then every two to three years they make another $300-$400 plus shipping for a little sticker or tag!! Something would be terribly wrong with this picture.
        Mike - One of the Montana Boys

        If it aint fast make it look good



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        • #64
          This thread started in 10-'09, re certification wasn't needed in 2010 far as I know. Does it need to be done for 2011 to race?
          Team Tower

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          • #65
            The new rule, if it hold up, starts 11-1-11, next racing season.

            I thought it was the Referee's duty to enforce safety rules not the inspectors! If it was up to me, as an inspector, at least 3-4 people wouldn't be racing last year with duct tape belts and zippers on their pants in region 10.


            Now we still will have the issue of rule enforcement, will the tags be inspected on every piece of safety gear for the 2012? It reads like it's the inspectors duty to check for certification tags?

            It's hard enough to run 2-4 classes out of one camp, inspect for technical issues, now we have to check for hundreds of pieces of safety gear also??? Yeah it's only once a year but all the info will have to be marked down and kept handy at all the races or we check tags every race???? Or do we let them race and just DQ then in inspection?

            One step forward 2 steps backwards.

            PS-None of my safety has ever been in question, ever! No holes, no bad zippers, no worn out material, ever!

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            • #66
              no one ever inspects my death trap

              Kevlar is made like crap! rarely use mine and falls apart at the seams!! whats it for ? to try and keep body parts in one place ? put it on and let me take a fresh box cutter to that joke!! just more apba bull ! gotta get the boys into dragracing!

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              • #67
                anyone.. anyone....

                funny thing.... i had a used jacket updated and impact installed a couple years back for almost 2x the price i was quoted on the phone (the company in az). my buddy lee sold me a used suit he had before i had the chance to use the jacket i had updated so i posted it for sale. within hours of the post i had a private message from the manufacture that my jacket wasn't the exact type jacket suited for kneedown racing. funny he didn't tell me that when i contacted him for the impact update and paid the higher price than he quoted.

                guess the bottom line is more important than customer and brand loyalty.
                Bill Dingman "The road to hell is paved with good intentions."

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                • #68
                  There was discussion at the category and the Safety Committee level. I am of the belief that local inspection is adequate. In addition I was not aware of any serious injuries due to material fatigue. I have seen leg injuries from pants riding up and props cutting exposed skin. I was informed that there is at least 1 known injury that could have been lessoned if the material had not been fatigued. The MFG's express opinions that the effective life of Kevlar is about 5 years. While bullet vests have a different application and construction, they have a mandatory replacement after 5 years. So without being stressed by getting hit with a bullet, the bullet proof vest MFG’s feel that the material fatigues enough that it is not reliable after 5 years of normal exposure to the elements plus wear and tear. I suggest you budget for cut suit replacement. And consider the value of a leg or arm or loss of use of a leg or arm because you did not want to pay for effective protective gear. Don't get mad, don’t quit, just plan. It may not be this year or next or the year after, but you should plan so you are not blindsided when the day comes. That way you can just do it, move on and have safe fun.

                  ChicagoPaul

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                  • #69
                    Aren't many or most bullet proof vests subject to daily wear?

                    That seems like much more use than our application. How many of us put ours on more than 100 times a year?

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                    • #70
                      Wasn't the purpose of re-certification to get rid of cut suits not manufactured by the chosen two, not really a safety issue but a good old boy issue. In till Stock Outboard stops making rule changes to help certain people profit from the sport it will continue to go down hill. Safety is great and certainly needs some oversight but also some common sense needs to be used with it, safety gear today costs as much as a rig did in the 60 and 70s. Stock Outboard is pricing it's self out of the sport by rule changes to benefit those at the top of the pyramid. That's the same bunch that can't understand why families don't want to spend $6000 plus to get into a sport that in till some of powers to be decide to help you can not win at. My $.02 Bob

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by EKorpe View Post
                        Kevlar is made like crap! rarely use mine and falls apart at the seams!! whats it for ? to try and keep body parts in one place ? put it on and let me take a fresh box cutter to that joke!! just more apba bull ! gotta get the boys into dragracing!
                        Kevlar is a fabric and there are many different weaves and their intended uses are different. Spectra and Tuff-N-Lite are also fabric like Kevlar with many different uses.

                        To say that the "Kevlar" is made like crap isn't quite fair. If it's falling apart at the seem, then my bet is that it's pretty old or was not properly cared for (left in sun, washed with the wrong products, etc). Possibly even made poorly, but the new stuff made over the last 10+ years is pretty **** well made in my opinion.

                        You ever been run over? I have, and I'm glad for the personal protection that we have and if you take you own safety for granted, then that's your decision (I'm sure someone will sell you there old "Crap" for cheap). If you care about your personal safety or that of a family member go out and by the newest/best protective gear you can and do some research first. We only have one body and racing can be inherintly dangerous.

                        Mark

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