cut suit certification rule?????

[Kev43V]

people are whinning about spending $75 or so dollars every 4yrs to recertify their life jackets????? How is that pricing someone out of racing?? I see EASILY that spend by LOTS of racers each weekend on alcohol..............

safety should be our #1 concern, just like any other form of racing............

should it be forced upon us............probably not the majority, but there are racers out there that don't even realize their safety gear is in TERRIBLE shape!!!!!!

Then educate them!
don't just make everyone spend money for a feel good rule that does absolutely nothing to improve the safety of the drivers. but does cause a substantial amount of money to change hands.
Like I said in the previous post:
I doubt after all the costs are totaled up at SRP that this program will do much if anything to improve their bottom line. I doubt USPS,UPS or FedEx will really notice the increased shipping. Yet it will be reflected in every racers budget in at least some small way.
Darren you say only 75 bucks? what about the parents with several kids running? I would hazard to guess that the average parent/racer has a smaller percentage of their income that can be dedicated to their race program. Than the average single/ married without children racer. (I am still paying my 1 kids college off so I still think about things that way LOL)

[Dave M]

Kev - Wasting Your Energy

Throwing insults and twisting peoples words is not debating.
on the other hand, explaining how two rules are better than one. That would be. PLEASE i mean it. who knows you might even convince me you are right.

I have nothing against safety Darren. There is a perfectly good rule in the book. it is not antiquated or even deemed politically incorrect. Its such a nice rule that when the NEW one is in question (IE a cut suit with a cert is damaged) you look to it(the old rule) about what to do.
hence the problem must lie with the enforcement of the first rule.
So when you can explain how it is better to have two rules.....

I actually do not care which way you voted. I know you chose to get on and post in defense of the rule. Yet you will not explain WHY you think it is better to have it. or how it will actually change anything.

Don't waste your breath debating with him. It is a lost cause. I know from personal experience, and know a lot of people with the same attitude. Remember, the Mod commisioner hotly debated the required mirror rule this past January..... all in the name of jumping on a bandwagon bound for nowhere.

At any rate, Maybe both Mod and Stock can perhaps remove the word Required or mandatory for all these silly saftey rules and replace it with Recommended ? I feel this would satisfy everyone. You can't continue to force budget racers to spend another 100 bucks each year. You are going to lose them, I gurantee it. Time to freeze the rules and work on building the membership. Lets face it, I am willing to bet over 80% of the racers in kneel down are budget racers. Meaning, they are hardly able to afford what they are doing now. Just like Darren said, some might spend money on some beer during the weekend... remove the beer money and see how many people are left..... I dare you...... We hear preaching on how much people love the family aspect of racing, the ability to sit down and enjoy life after the races with each other. Pretty soon all you will see is a bunch of backyard bon fires of everyone reliving the good old days a few years back. Lets face it, everything is going up in cost, boats are now 3K or more for a new one, some near the 7K and 8K marks. You can't go purchase a hemp boat for $1500 any longer and have it new, or any other hull that is new. You can't find a gearcase for under 1K anymore. Most are near 2K. Saftey gear already cost over a 1K if you buy all new stuff. I am afraid our kneel down racing is fast becomming a sport for the well off. Might as well build a stadium and let the bets begin.

[D_Allen_III]

I haven't followed this thread from start to finish so I what bring up may have been discussed already and I overlooked in my 1 minute scan of the discussion. Apologies if it's been brought up...

In regards to the being "orange" enough and faded lifejackets, isn't it counter productive for racers to wear black, navy blue, green, yellow, etc cut proof sleeves while their jacket is suppose to be bright orange? I've had several people comment on a life jacket that I've worn and they say that it is too faded to be recertified without paying 200 dollars to be recovered. I'm not paying for my lifejacket to be recovered so I can be seen in the water, while other people wear sleeves that blend in with the surface of the water. It makes absolutely no sense to be that the limbs that people have in the air and often times wave around for people to see follow a completely different set of guidelines.

I think we really need to reconsidered what we are going to determine is safe and who we allow to make that interpretation.

After seeing Kurt Nydahl cut injury a few weeks ago at Pleasant Prairie I am definitely in favor of safety and precaution, but some of the things we are making people do aren't making sense.

I think everyone should be wearing cut proof socks and gloves since those two areas of the body seem to have way more injuries than the fleshy areas of the arm and leg. Has anyone ever compiled a list of the cut injuries reported by APBA in the past 5, 10, 15 years so we can place an emphasis on those areas? I'm not sure if those statistics are recorded but I would be very interested to see the results.

[Kev43V]

I suspect K&K has the types and extent of injury's to drivers, pit crews. etc. categorized by both injury occurrences and the category raced. but that is just a guess on my part. But I think all insurance companies feel compelled to do that. if for no other reason than to address means of reducing their losses

[swheeler]

people are whinning about spending $75 or so dollars every 4yrs to recertify their life jackets????? How is that pricing someone out of racing?? I see EASILY that spend by LOTS of racers each weekend on alcohol..............

safety should be our #1 concern, just like any other form of racing............

should it be forced upon us............probably not the majority, but there are racers out there that don't even realize their safety gear is in TERRIBLE shape!!!!!!

Maybe it's just me but I'd rather be racing against someone who is wearing a non-certified lifejacket then someone who has consummed $75.00 worth of alcohol the night before.

[propfxrO84]

Maybe it's just me but I'd rather be racing against someone who is wearing a non-certified lifejacket then someone who has consummed $75.00 worth of alcohol the night before.

Or the day of!!!!! I have seen it in person. Bryan O-84

[14J]

I
I think everyone should be wearing cut proof socks and gloves since those two areas of the body seem to have way more injuries than the fleshy areas of the arm and leg.

Agree and I'm glad you brought this up. I'm sure statistics would prove this worthy of legislation. But of course someone will complain that we're forcing them to spend an extra $100.00.

[T Chance]

I'm a Pro driver so re-certification doesn't apply to me, but it does because I have a Granddaughter that is going to start racing next year in J-Stock. But I guess it doesn't apply there either because she will have started with all new safety gear and then moved on to K-Pro before it would have been re-certified (or outgrown it).

I do want to say though, that I don't like the idea of someone with probably no more knowledge than me, telling me, what is safe for me.

All my safety gear is the new more expensive Turr-N-Lite and I wear Tuff-N-Lite cut resistant socks. I tried the Tuff-N-Lite gloves and don't feel comfortable driving the boat with gloves on. Does anyone want to force me to wear gloves, because if I'm uncomfortable driving my boat, then I'm a danger to others.

Also, I agree 100% with what Dave Mason posted earlier.

[D_Allen_III]

Gloves I actually wouldn't force upon anyone either. I agree with you 100% because I too don't feel comfortable wearing them. I guess it's somewhat hypocritical but I really brought that up because I would rather see those two things mandated rather than someone tellin gme my gear isn't bright enough or it doesn't "look" safe anymore.

Safety is the hardest thing in the boat racing world to implement because:
A) no one has ever gone faster because they are safer so people don't want to spend the money on it
B) it is ultimately on the racer himself/herself to make a choice that is keeps the person safe
C) people don't want to pay a company to tell them their gear isn't good enough when that same company is who we get it fixed by and by new gear from

[Kev43V]

I removed my above replys cause the person I was replying too. Removed their posts.

[Brian10s]

Safety is the hardest thing in the boat racing world to implement because:

B) it is ultimately on the racer himself/herself to make a choice that is keeps the person safe

Donny,
You are 100% correct on all the above. I too never wore gloves because of they did not feel right but after some friends had their hands all cut up, the choice was made for me. Mom laid down the law and since then I have gotten so used to them, that I will not race without them now. (a little secret with the gloves with the green goo on them - wear them backwards so the goo in on top of your hand instead of on your palm [sidenote - goo on palm- I might get a HR yellow card for that one]. You have the same grip but do not have the goo mess all over everything). It is something to work past - most of us make our living with our hands (either punching a keyboard, turning a wrech or whatever), so we need to step up and protect what puts bread on the table.

On point B - While I agree that personal safety is ultimately on the driver, there is a collective cost that we all pay for those with substandard safety gear. When a claim goes into the Insuance Co for something that safety gear should have prevented, we all pay for it in higher fees to the club to put on a race.

Yes, we have rules aready in place that should eliminate suspect safety gear. The downside is those that are required to enforce these rules are the same "volunteers" that are running the race and making sure the playing field is level. And we have all seen how "mildly irritated" some drivers can be when they jump the gun or get called for a chop or get bounced for fuel or weight. Imagine the level for hostility when you get bounced for suspect safety gear. And does any Ref or Inspect have any training or guidelines as to what is suspect and what is ok? Or is it 100% judgement call?

Suspect Kevlar is like a chop, bearing away or Porn - hard to describe but you know it when you see it.

[Kev43V]

[ quote 10s

Yes, we have rules aready in place that should eliminate suspect safety gear. The downside is those that are required to enforce these rules are the same "volunteers" that are running the race and making sure the playing field is level. And we have all seen how "mildly irritated" some drivers can be when they jump the gun or get called for a chop or get bounced for fuel or weight. Imagine the level for hostility when you get bounced for suspect safety gear. And does any Ref or Inspect have any training or guidelines as to what is suspect and what is ok? Or is it 100% judgement call?

Suspect Kevlar is like a chop, bearing away or Porn - hard to describe but you know it when you see it.[/QUOTE]

Which is exactly why the Mod rule is much better than ours in my opinion.
IF it has tears,broken zippers or is worn through. it is unsafe gear. the Ref does not have to make a judgment call that is open to interpretation. It is the above or it is not.
as the Rules stand right now it still falls back on the Ref. to make a judgementt call on what is safe or not safe, if certified gear has damage. I think we all realize the the cert is only good until the gear leaves SRP. they are in no way certifying that the gear is safe for the next X years. just that when the gear left their hands it was in good condition.

[Big Don]

Trust me I want me family and friends safe and I posted on here a few weeks ago everyone should put cut resistant socks on their Christmas list. Donny actually just picked up a second pair and all of the Allen’s that race will wear them also from now on.

I just don't think this rule does what we need.

So if we are truly concerned with safety, how about we ban drinking at the races from 6:00PM on Friday until the last heat on Sunday. Then we won’t have people racing all hung over or maybe even still inebriated, they will be sharper and have better motor skills and we’ll all be safer.

A heavy bout of drinking affects nearly every system of the body for up to 24 hours. A look at the body's reaction to a large dose of alcohol:
• Stomach lining become inflamed, delaying digestion; excess gastric acid contributes to nausea.
• Liver builds up fatty and lactic acids, impairing the body's ability to metabolize sugar. The resulting low (hypoglycemia) can cause weakness and mood disturbances.
• Muscles become weak from dehydration and low blood sugar levels.
• Brain's blood vessels dilate, causing a throbbing headache. Dehydration can cause the brain to pull from its lining, intensifying the pain.
• Pituitary gland releases improper amounts of several hormones, disrupting the brain's circadian rhythm (which makes sleep feel less restful) and interfering with normal kidney function.
• Central nervous system becomes chemically overexcited, causing sweating, tremors and sensitivity to light, sound and touch.
• Heart can become inflamed; start beating with an abnormal rhythm, or even stop beating.
• Pancreas increases production of digestive chemicals, causing pain, nausea and vomiting.

[ram95]

Crap....
This 'rule' came about as a result of MIS-perception, ie it was perceived by some... that we have in our ranks.... individuals who would wear unsafe cut-suits. Their "perception" if you will, was based on racers whose kevlars had duct tape wrapped around various parts. And, therefore it was "perceived" that the freakin duct tape was being used to hold the kevlars together. When in fact, the vast majority of the time... the DUCT TAPE was being used to PROTECT the cut-suit from abrasion OR to hold additional padding in place for driver comfort.

So... gentle racers... what we have here..., is "a failuire to communicate" (Cool hand Luke), and a dumbly written rule ( an unfunded mandate if you will!)) which is supposed to be a solution to a problem (ie racers being injured due to tatty cut-suits) which has not shown itself to EXIST. However, mantra of Safety, being the sacred cow that it is, don't be surprised if your neighbor votes for it again this year. Hopefully, the concept that: It's your butttt... protect it as you see fit, will prevail. If not...

Please Lord.... if you do exist.... spare me!.. for I have shaken the hand of Elmer K. hisself..., and I believe that I alone am the arbiter of my fate.

Alex
the Mad Russian, DSH 12A

[BP125V]

upset?

Donny,


Yes, we have rules aready in place that should eliminate suspect safety gear. The downside is those that are required to enforce these rules are the same "volunteers" that are running the race and making sure the playing field is level. And we have all seen how "mildly irritated" some drivers can be when they jump the gun or get called for a chop or get bounced for fuel or weight. Imagine the level for hostility when you get bounced for suspect safety gear. And does any Ref or Inspect have any training or guidelines as to what is suspect and what is ok? Or is it 100% judgement call?

good points Brian. You mention the difficulty enforcing the current rule and having a race official tell someone their gear is not safe enough and they can't race with it. But how about being an official that has to tell a driver that just scored points in a race that he is DQ'd because even though his safety gear is in pristine condition it is not certified and therefore not legal? The first situation while uncomfortable at least makes sense. The second situation makes no sense whatsoever.

Bill