cut suit certification rule?????

[BP125V]

Can someone please enlighten me on how this new rule works?

What happens to me next season when I show up in inspection at an APBA Stock Outboard race with a cut suit that is not certified and yet it is in better condition than the guy standing next to me who has a certified cut suit? Do I get DQ'd for having better - ie safer - safety gear?

Bill

[Jack Stotts]

I assume you are speaking of what will happen in APBA, remember there are two National Organiztions whose rule may not be as those in APBA. An answer should reflect as to which organization is being addressed.

[Brian10s]

09 SORC Minutes

Below from the 09 SORC Minutes
51. Proposal from Tammy Dawe based on Pat Gleason’s safety update/explanation. Proposal read by Brian Trolian. Discussion. Proposal was as follows:

There shall be a mandatory certification on lifejackets, cut-resistant sleeves, and cut-resistant pants. The certification shall be done every four years and conducted by the manufacturer. Certifications shall be checked at all boat safety inspections. It is also recommended to check certifications after the final heat of each race.

Motion made for proposal. Second. Questions. Decision made to share with Mod and other Committees. Minimun standard. Motion passed.

Anyone hear what the cost and timeline might be? Also is this for all, regardless of manufacture date (ie What if purchased new in the last year or 2)?

My guess is there will be a huge rush in the Spring.

[BP125V]

no

Brian,

There should not be a rush in the spring, this is a bad rule and should be removed asap. Determination of the safety gear is subjective and we already have a rule in place to address equipment that is unfit for racing.

Bill

[Kev43V]

I mean no disrespect to Tammy. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind she had what is best for us as individuals and the APBA in the forefront of her mind when she proposed this rule.
BUT
it still comes down to enforcement. We already have a rule in effect to do the same job. (get unsafe gear off of the water)
It is up to the very same individuals to enforce the new one as the old one.
if the old one was not being enforced I have no faith the the new one will be enforced any better than the old one. It comes down to the same thing NO ONE wants to be the person that sidelines someone else. Not only that as it was pointed out in a previous post that was lost. if the certified gear is damaged it still falls back to the ORIGINAL rule.
there is no point in adding NEW rules when the old ones are not being enforced. That is the real issue, and has nothing to do with a certification program.
GET rid of it and adopt a rule like mod did. Rips. tears,broken zippers, worn thru. its no race for you. at least then it is not an arbitrary rule that is subject to interpretation

[Brian10s]

Brian,

There should not be a rush in the spring, this is a bad rule and should be removed asap. Determination of the safety gear is subjective and we already have a rule in place to address equipment that is unfit for racing.

Bill

Bill,
Bad rule or not - it is in the books as of right now.
At the very least, this should be a wake up call to all drivers (regardless of Category) to take a good hard look at your safety gear and get it replaced if needed. Even if this rule goes away in January, there will still be a big push to keep those busted, ripped, and held together with duct tape kevlars off the water. If we (as a group of drivers) do not step up and correct this on our own, the powers that be will (and it might be something else even worse than this).

I would not be suprised to have to show up at drivers meeting in full "race trim" for a "Safety Inspection" sometime in the future.

[Big Don]

Since it appears our post were lost…

Just another silly rule in my opinion.

If I have my Kevlar certified today and leave it outside for 2 years every weekend in the sun and turn it inside out to dry faster and it takes a beating, is it still ok to race since it’s certified?

Who decides if the life jacket is orange enough? I had a life jacket that I took in to have cleaned at the cleaners. The person working the counter wrote on the ticket Orange Life Jacket. I sent that life jacket in to have the plastic put in it last year and was told it was not orange enough. The person working the counter thought it was orange.

[Big Don]

We all agree that we race in a sport that can be dangerous.

Should we take some precautions? Sure.

I for one think this rule is not needed. I am not positive on the actual cost because I have heard anywhere from 10.00 per piece to 40.00 per piece.

We are going to cause the S.O. drivers spend what $12,000.00 just for the certifications? That’s not counting the money that will have to be spent on new Kevlar. 400 drivers at 30.00 per driver plus shipping to and from another 8.00 to 10.00 each way. $20,000.00 by the time it’s all done? And I’m not sure it will do what we were really trying to do. We have rules that allow us to do what we are trying to do.

If I understand the minutes correctly Mod did not pass such a rule?
MOD National meeting minutes:
Proposal from the stock category to have mandatory certification of all safety gear (sleeves, pants, and life jackets) every 4 years. Motion by Dave Augustine, seconded by Daren Goehring to accept this proposal. Motion failed 2 in favor, 7 against, 4 abstentions.

So now none of our MOD friend can race in the Stock Category unless they spend the money also?

2009 APBA J COMMITTEE NATIONAL MEETING MINUTES indicated the following cost….
SRP recommends you send back the item every 4 years for cleaning and servicing. The cost for adding the date into the cut suit or lifejacket is $40.00 including shipping and $80.00 if cleaning is needed.

[sponsonhead]

The cost for adding the date into the cut suit or lifejacket is $40.00 including shipping and $80.00 if cleaning is needed.

The above statement is not correct for a lifejacket. The cost for cleaning and recertification of an SRP non-parachute jacket is $70 including shipping.

The cost listed above for recertification of cut suits is correct.

Patrick Gleason
Security Race Products

[topomichracer140m]

Safety is a good thing.....Pricing normal folks out of racing isnt.....WAKE UP!!

[14-H]

I mean no disrespect to Tammy. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind she had what is best for us as individuals and the APBA in the forefront of her mind when she proposed this rule.
BUT
******

Parliamentary Procedure creates no preumption that someone who makes a motion supports the motion. I have made plenty of motions as a commissioner for purposes of allowing discussion of the motion that I then voted against after discussion was over. Look at how each commissioner VOTED to see what s/he supports.

[mercguy]

gimme a break...........

people are whinning about spending $75 or so dollars every 4yrs to recertify their life jackets????? How is that pricing someone out of racing?? I see EASILY that spend by LOTS of racers each weekend on alcohol..............

safety should be our #1 concern, just like any other form of racing............

should it be forced upon us............probably not the majority, but there are racers out there that don't even realize their safety gear is in TERRIBLE shape!!!!!!

[BP125V]

a tax???

people are whinning about spending $75 or so dollars every 4yrs to recertify their life jackets????? How is that pricing someone out of racing?? I see EASILY that spend by LOTS of racers each weekend on alcohol..............

safety should be our #1 concern, just like any other form of racing............

should it be forced upon us............probably not the majority, but there are racers out there that don't even realize their safety gear is in TERRIBLE shape!!!!!!

Hi Mercguy,

So now we have to pay what amounts to a TAX because someone else does not take care of their safety gear? I for one take excellent care of my gear - I hand wash it frequently during the season, I keep it out of the sun at all times unless I am wearing it to race, I have my second older set that I wear testing, and I never ever loan my safety gear out. My stuff is in great shape and I do not need to pay someone to tell me that (plus pay for shipping).

I am sorry, but if someone's gear is in terrible shape it is THEIR responsibility.

This is a bad rule and needs to be removed for the following reasons (so far):
1) A person can get DQ'd for non-certified gear even if it is in better shape than certified gear.
2) A MOD guy with legal MOD gear can't cross over and run a STOCK class.
3) We already have a rule in place that addresses this issue.
4) This rule places a burden on those who take care of and have safety gear that is in good condition.
5) Unless the pants/sleeves have broken zippers, holes, etc per the MOD rule, the inspection and certification process is subjective.
6) Gear can get damaged after certification.

Please contact your new commissioners when they are elected and let's get this rule removed from the Stock category.

thanks,
Bill

[mercguy]

Hi Mercguy,

So now I have to pay what amounts to a TAX because someone else does not take care of their safety gear? I take excellent care of my gear - I hand wash it frequently during the season, I keep it out of the sun at all times unless I am wearing it to race, I have my second older set that I wear testing, and I never ever loan my safety gear out. My stuff is in great shape and I do not need to pay someone to tell me that (plus pay for shipping).

I am sorry, but if someone's gear is in terrible shape it is not my fault.

This is a bad rule and needs to be removed for the following reasons (so far):
1) A person can get DQ'd for non-certified gear even if it is in better shape than certified gear.
2) A MOD guy with legal MOD gear can't cross over and run a STOCK class.
3) We already have a rule in place that addresses this issue.
4) This rule places a burden on those who take care of and have safety gear that is in good condition.
5) Unless the pants/sleeves have broken zippers, holes, etc per the MOD rule, the inspection and certification process is subjective.

Please contact your new commissioners when they are elected and let's get this rule removed from the Stock category.

thanks,
Bill

Bill says "
I am sorry, but if someone's gear is in terrible shape it is not my fault."

you are ABSOLUTELY correct Bill, but "we" are an organization of many people, not just one individual, so rules, etc (whether they are liked or not) are made to benefit (or whatever term you want to use) "our" organization as a "whole"................

peace out...............you guys can continue debating the issue.............or should we talk about how POORLY a LOT of peoples safety gear actually FITS??????

[Graham 18ce]

Just wondering if anyone can recall why we dropped the cert rule we had about 10 years ago? I thought it was something about the liabily of the cert meaning it was safe to race with.
the rule we have currently allowed for an inspector to beach someone with gear that appears unsafe. also giving the person the option or the ablity to borrow gear for the remaining weekend.

Anyone heard if Lifeline will do certs on cut suits and what their cost would be?