Rip Van Winkle?

[HRTV]

Hey all,

This question might be better suited for a OPC message board but since there really is not one and many of the drivers also hang out over here... well anyway

I frequent many of the European racing sites and notice they are running Yamaha 70 Outboard's Yamaha 15hp Outboards and list goes on and on... Mercury 60hp etc.. Evinrude GT-30

What is the problem here in the states that prevent these motors from being run here? Also since all these manufactures seem to produce low horsepower motors why is there a need for Sidewinder etc. when all someone has to do is mass market a universal mid section with adapter plates.

I have been sleep for the last 100 years? What is wrong here in this country?

<img alt="" src="http://www.girlracer.co.uk/images/stories/july/gw210709nataliecraddock2.jpg" title="Natalie Craddock Girl PowerBoat Racer 88 " class="alignnone" width="500" height="333" />

[Graham]

Rip Van Winkle - New Motors

Dan: As far as I'm concerned the type efforts you describe in your message is the real way to go forward. Just think, motors out of the box and plentiful with very few modifications. I've always felt that the lack of motor supply, "out of the box", so to speak, limits new viable racers from signing up.

Sincerely,
Don Graham

[HRTV]

Dan: As far as I'm concerned the type efforts you describe in your message is the real way to go forward. Just think, motors out of the box and plentiful with very few modifications. I've always felt that the lack of motor supply, "out of the box", so to speak, limits new viable racers from signing up.

Sincerely,
Don Graham

Hey Don,

I have been asking this very same question for years now across the net and I never seem to get a straight answer: confused: but every time I click on a European racing site I see full fields of everything ranging from 15hp on up all of which come out of the Mercury, Johnson or Evinrude factories.

Click back over to the US sites and we are still nursing SST45 motors and SST60 motors around the course. Is there anyone out there that can give me a honest straight answer regarding this?

[David_L6]

How much do the Yamaha 70s, Mercury 60s, and Evinrude GT-30s cost? That may have something to do with it.

[HRTV]

How much do the Yamaha 70s, Mercury 60s, and Evinrude GT-30s cost? That may have something to do with it.

Not sure I follow your logic Dave? racing = $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ you probably have more in your (A) motor then one these brand new motors.

[David_L6]

Is it cheaper to buy a Yamato or a Sidewinder or one of the above mentioned motors? Not to mention the tunnel boats are going to be more expensive than a hydro. That may be why those motors aren't racing in the U.S.???

A lot of people just aren't interested in spending money on a toy that they can use only a few weekends a year and they have to travel several hours from home to use it (talking about race boats) when they can buy a jet ski or dirt bike, drive 30 minutes to a place to ride, and ride every weekend.

I've been pretty lucky as far as $$$ spent goes when it came to building the 4 cylinder Mercs I've been racing for years. Haven't really tied up a whole lot of money in them. This @$#%!@ OMC 3 holer I've been working on is a different story though. That class has turned out to be very expensive for me to get into.

[pro350hydro]

Can you say Emissions?

The Bass Brothers have had to do a lot of work to get the Tohatsu approved in the states as they are a different powerhead, than what is sold in the US when purchased as a fishing motor. I believe (could be wrong) there was alot of red tape due to emissions to jump through. Don't you have to sign a bunch of emissions paperwork to buy a 302 now a days?

I doubt that people will be willing to do all the work that the Bass brothers have done over the years to get a new motor through all the red tape and then get beaten down by racers and organizations like a red headed step child.

The Bass brothers stepped up to the plate, they made it happen but it has been a long and difficult road for them. My hats off to them. And anyone who knows them, knows they are hardly making any money at this, but they are long time boat racers just trying to keep boat racing alive and well.

Just my 2 cents

[B Walker]

Dan, I reject the fundamental premise of your question.

I can safely say Sidewinder is not and has no intention of attempting to manufacture motors for OPC. When you ask why we need Racing Outboards LLC after noting the use of motors in a similar horsepower range used in European racing you are comparing apples to oranges.

European style racing is usually done in much different racing conditions than here in the US. They race these 30hp Yamahas in conditions no Stock Outboard racer would ever consider racing in.

OPC will have to address the same problems Stock Outboard is addressing with old, out of production motors, and a shrinking spare parts supply. Be interesting to watch how OPC deals with a similar problem as Stock Outboard.

By the way, I am a huge supporter of the Universal Tower/foot concept for Stock Outboard.

BW

[raceright]

Same old story has been told for over twenty years

Ho HUMmm

[HRTV]

Dan, I reject the fundamental premise of your question.

I can safely say Sidewinder is not and has no intention of attempting to manufacture motors for OPC. When you ask why we need Racing Outboards LLC after noting the use of motors in a similar horsepower range used in European racing you are comparing apples to oranges.

European style racing is usually done in much different racing conditions than here in the US. They race these 30hp Yamahas in conditions no Stock Outboard racer would ever consider racing in.

OPC will have to address the same problems Stock Outboard is addressing with old, out of production motors, and a shrinking spare parts supply. Be interesting to watch how OPC deals with a similar problem as Stock Outboard.

By the way, I am a huge supporter of the Universal Tower/foot concept for Stock Outboard.

BW

Understood Brad but you must agree that it would have been a hell of lot easier to adopt a universal mid section then produce new motors ie Sidewinder.

[HRTV]

Same old story has been told for over twenty years

Ho HUMmm

Right Pat but when will the masses rise up and say enough and take control since clearly the current leadership doesn’t know its ass from a hole in the ground.

[raceright]

Main reason I run Pro--anything goes, much easier

[ian]

Seems to me there are a lot of new and used Yamaha 15's out there, sub 80 pounds in fishing garb. J/A motor? Why not?

[hydroracer25]

Really?

Right Pat but when will the masses rise up and say enough and take control since clearly the current leadership doesn’t know its ass from a hole in the ground.

Dan,
What leadership are you talking about? APBA, SORC, MORC, PORC, NBRA, AOF, local clubs or are you just talking in generalities? Who are the masses? If the masses want to rise up then they should get involved with their local club, or region or sanctioning body and become integrally involved. Having an open forum or a "live chat" on HR or HRTV is not realistic and is NOT the "masses" by a long shot. H3ll, many of the people complain don't even race.

Everyone is b!tching about engines being "obsoleted" and "eliminated" and to my knowledge that is not the case. True the Y302 or 102 will not be able to race in 5 classes, but they will still have a few to race in. Should they ever have been allowed to race in 5 classes? The OMC or Y80 is not being eliminated or replaced by the Sidewinder either.

You also talk about cost and wouldn't it be easier to build adopt a "universal" Lower unit / mid-section. Here are a few examples that provide some comparisons on cost:
Mercury (APBA J): $3695 (w/ racing gearcase), $220 shipping, ~$100 to shape gearcase, ~$300 (for someone like G Stillwill to "tune") = $4315 ($2158 / cylinder)
Sidewinder 15: ~ $4500 ($2250 / cylinder)
Bass "D": No idea on their cost, but guessing $6000+ ($2000+ / cylinder)

GRM 125: $5970 ($5970 / cylinder)
GRM 250: $8250 ($4125 / cylinder)
GRM 350: $9670 ($3223 / cylinder)

Our OMC "A" we bought in 1985 cost about $1750 (dealer discount) if I not mistaken. With a 3.0% increase compounded annually for 25 years (ie. 2010) the price would be about $3665. If it were 3.5% it would be $4135.

So explain to me how a 4-stroke fishing engine (which it appears like 2 of the 4 in your pictures were) is going to be less costly to convert to a "racing" engine. Not to mention it is a "4-stroke". 4-strokes may be an option in OPC with bigger boats, but in Stock Outboard it won't work.

My point here is that the prices per cylinder on the Sidewinder on a per cylinder basis are not out of line and are in fact close to the price of a "J" engine that has the "stock / fishing-pleasure powerhead with racing lower unit" you suggest.

I have as much invested in 4 Y102s and 4 Y80s as just about anyone and as much as I like them and want them to continue to run, if the parts become scarce you can't continue to have them as the only option if you want to attract new members. The Sidewinder is a great thing for SO racing and once they get them worked out a little more and people start to compete well or win with them, they will be purchased.

Mark

[sam]

GT Pro: http://www.boatracingfacts.com/forum...ead.php?t=5397