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Modified outboard rule change ballot

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  • Modified outboard rule change ballot

    I'd like to start a thread to discuss the proposed rule changes for the APBA Modified Outboard division. I would also encourage everyone to go to the APBA website and review the minutes from the MORC national meeting to get a better understanding of the origins of these proposals.

    Proposal seven is the only item that all mod drivers vote on and if passed would remove the OMC and Mercury 25 Hydro engines from the 350cc hydro class. The rational is that these engine already have a class to run in. I find it interesting that the Merc 20-H can be run in 250 and 350 and a 44 cubic in Merc can run in both 750 and 850 yet there is no proposal to limit these engines to one class. Also, the Morc approved as probationary engines the 20 cu in hot rod (already legal in 350) in 400, the 102/302 Yamoto (500 cc class) for the 350 runabout, and the Tohatsu in 750. I'm have little knowledge of the Tohatsu but I believe that they are legal in other stock and mod classes. This proposal was on the ballot last year and got voted down, so why is it back?

    Proposal two (only 350ccm drivers vote) is also a proposal that was on last years ballot and failed. It would raise the weight of the 22 cu in OMC and Mercury engines by 25 pounds and the rational is to improve parity in the class. If you judge what engine has dominate the class by looking at data such as national high points and national championships it would appear that the Yamato is the dominate engine. Most racers would tell you that adding 25 pounds to their boats would slow them down. I believe that adding weight to the OMC and Merc rigs will not bring them into parity with the Yamato but instead will widen the gap. Also if parity is what we are seeking shouldn't we be doing something to make the 20 cu Mercs and Hot Rods more competive? I also object to making the weight change effective in 30 days when normally these types of changes would occur next year.

    Proposals four and five are voted on by 400cc hydro drivers. One would allow more ignition systems and the other more carbs. The rationale is to make 400 a more open class. Currently the engines we have start well, are reliable, and are relatively inexpensive. I have not heard anyone complain that getting parts is a problem. I don't see either of these proposals bringing additional people to the class or to modified outboard. Also, we approved changes to the the tech rules last year and has yet don't know what effect those changes will have. If we make the engine faster and more expensive I'm afraid of killing the class.

    I have little knowledge of the other proposals. Maybe someone else can add something to explain the pros and cons of each of the rest.

    I am hopeful that this thread will start a positive discussion and lead to informed voting. A wise man once told me that great minds talk about ideas and small minds talk about poeple. Lets keep the discussion focused on ideas.
    Thanks, Steve

  • #2
    Gents,
    I completely agree with Steve on all of these points. #1 The 350CCM class is alive and very competitive the way it is. Most of us with the old Mercs/OMC's seldom compete in both classes but when our dwindling field of 400's doesn't have enough boats we'd like to have an opportunity to get in a couple of heats even though we are seldom if ever competitive against the torque of the Yamato. #2 The Yamato doesn't need any additional weight in our 22ci OMC or Merc's to beat us. Look at the results! #3 I really see NO reason to allow more (or different) carburetors on the OMC/Merc as there is no shortage of the original and as stated, they are reliable. Whassup with this proposal? I'm voting with Steve ! Mike Marshall, Raceboat61-S

    Comment


    • #3
      My feelings are exactly the same. In the end I hope the voting reflects this.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by sam View Post
        My feelings are exactly the same. In the end I hope the voting reflects this.
        Ditto.......Do ya want to have good competitive race'n.....or a....parade?

        If the "train" is gonn'a wreck....so be it.....I tried to stop it last year....and asked for and proposed a way to offer everyone communication on the proposals so we could all "pay attention" next year.....

        .......and that's all I got left for breath to say on it.....ya only git so many breaths in one life!......................
        Last edited by STEVE FRENCH; 03-15-2009, 01:02 PM.
        100N STEVE FRENCH > Nobody can hang with my STUFF!! >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tna3B5zqHdk

        SEEEEEE YAAAAAA!!............In my WAKE!! .............100N>>

        Comment


        • #5
          Explaining

          Well, since the 25 mod class is the only proposed change that I can vote one (no D or FE changes on the ballot) I would like to hear more to the why it was proposed rather than a simple they already have a class.

          I tend to agree with Steve on this one. While 25 is a strong class, it seems to be more region strong than national. I have seen many show up and also seen a couple show up. When only a couple show up, allowing them to run in B Mod is a great way to save the entry fee and retain the racer as a racer. Am I missing something here ? If someone woul dlike to tak ei toff line and PM or call me, that is fine. I just want to know the reasoning behind the proposal.
          Dave Mason
          Just A Boat Racer

          Comment


          • #6
            Can anybody say

            "The Rick Miller Rule"??
            Brian 10s

            Comment


            • #7
              The Rick Miller Rule.

              Comment


              • #8
                Here in New England we don't have a 400cc class, we have to run our OMC's an Mercs in the 350cc class. The 400cc rigs are not as fast, but its a good race. By eliminating the 400cc in 350cc we have no race. Our club (eastern outboard racing club ) on the island here has 7 omc's and 2 merc's. I think by adding 25 lbs. we won't even be in the ball game. Lets leave well enough alone. In this day and age, we want to attract new drivers to an inexpensive and easy to maintain class. The 400cc class fits the bill.
                Last edited by hpick86n; 04-12-2009, 05:35 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Here's the forum discussion from last years (2008) proposals....https://hydroracer.net/forums/showthread.php?t=12735
                  .
                  MODIFIED MEET'N MINUTES (2009)....http://www.apba-racing.com/Forms/200...%20Minutes.pdf
                  .............VERY... In-ter-est-ing ....but ------............
                  .
                  Guess one (?) more breath wasn't so bad...
                  .
                  .
                  https://hydroracer.net/forums/showthr...385#post102385
                  .
                  .
                  Originally posted by hpick86n View Post
                  here in newingland we don't have a 400cc class . we have to run our OMC an mercs in the 350cc class .the 400cc rigs are not as fast but its a good race. by eliminating the 400cc in 350cc we have no race . our club (eastern outboard racing club ) on the island here has 7 omc"s and 2 merc"s. I think by adding 25 lbs. we won't even be in the ball game. lets leave well enough alone. in this day and age we want to atract new drivers to a inexpensive and easy to maintain class. the 400cc class fits the bill.
                  If you are run'n without a pipe/through tower exhaust....yer legal in A-MOD...........but would still appreciate yer vote against these proposals.........
                  .
                  .
                  Last edited by STEVE FRENCH; 03-17-2009, 02:33 AM.
                  100N STEVE FRENCH > Nobody can hang with my STUFF!! >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tna3B5zqHdk

                  SEEEEEE YAAAAAA!!............In my WAKE!! .............100N>>

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by swheeler View Post
                    This proposal was on the ballot last year and got voted down, so why is it back? Proposal two (only 350ccm drivers vote) is also a proposal that was on last years ballot and failed. I believe that adding weight to the OMC and Merc rigs will not bring them into parity with the Yamato but instead will widen the gap.

                    A wise man once told me that great minds talk about ideas and small minds talk about poeple. Lets keep the discussion focused on ideas.
                    Thanks, Steve
                    Mr Wheeler,
                    To answer the first question - it is back because some people did not like the results were on last years ballot.
                    I agree this discussion should be about facts and not people. However, the elephant in the room is the fact that these proposed rule changes are about one person and either kicking him out of the class or slowing him down so he doesn't beat us.

                    These 2 proposals have nothing to do with parity - 350MH is a yamato class and therefore must be dominated by Yamato. Any threat to that status quo, will be dealt with not by increased inovation or hard work but legislation.

                    I guess next year we will see proposals against the Palmquist 850MH rig to slow him down. Why? Because they are just too fast. Maybe a rule against the Luce Super Wegie boats. Why? Because they are fast and easy to drive.

                    Rule proposals like this are more for 5 yrs old T-Ball than racing. Maybe we should not keep track of points so everyone can win and get ice cream at the end of the day.

                    Originally posted by Mark.Wheeler View Post
                    The Rick Miller Rule.
                    Correct the other Mr Wheeler - would you care to go for Double Jepordy where the cash prizes can really add up?

                    Nothing better than "I can't beat him on the race course so I will legislate him out" politics.
                    Brian 10s

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Truth is Rick Miller just out drives alot of guys and his rig is two to three miles slower on a mile course, yet only a few want him out, most on the bank see real competition. We will see what happens on a three quarter mile track. Maybe the best starter wins. The two motors make for interesting racing. APBa records shows the Yamato four miles faster, but Rick's record is ten years plus old. Racing is still about starting, turning and being in the right water. Sam H. beat us some many times because his boats were faster in the turns and John drives a Hemp that makes him the fastest in the class. He has dominated because of his set up, prop, and driveing skill pure and simple. Let's keep raceing untill the OMC breaks another crankshaft. Doc 35-0

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Okay, Enough

                        Y'all don't need to be name dropping. That is just unsportsman like. I asked a simple question for someone to explain the rational to kick it out. So far all I can see is some stock oriented rational of one class one motor.
                        Dave Mason
                        Just A Boat Racer

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Dave M View Post
                          I just want to know the reasoning behind the proposal.
                          [QUOTE=Dave M;127157]Y'all don't need to be name dropping. That is just unsportsman like. QUOTE]

                          Dave,
                          Not sure how "unsportsman like" the answer was but at least you got an answer. And my response was not "a shot" at Rick - he has done an incedible job and is a great driver. But as for the reasoning, has anyone else come up with a better explaination for the proposal than the one I provided?
                          Brian 10s

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Brian Williams,
                            You are incorrect on the reasoning for this years ballot items. Proposal # 2 was reintroduced because last year’s ballot included the 350MR drivers who race different engines than the 350MH drivers (350MR races the 350 / 400 / 25XS engines). It would be like allowing DSH drivers to vote on your CSH rules! The 2009 Mod commission discussed last year’s proposal and revised it so that the 25 engine racing in 350MH will only have a 25 lb weight advantage over the Yamato instead of the current 50 lbs. This rule makes the weight difference in 350MH the same the 350MR (25 lbs). Why is this ballot item not fair?

                            Proposal #7 was incorrectly submitted last year due to an error by the entire commission. The removal of an engine from a class requires a majority vote by all Modified drivers. To be fair, this ballot item appears on the rule change ballot again this year.

                            For those who are interested, the 25 hydro engine will still have a place to race since that engine also races in 400MH. Also note that the 25 engine (racing in 350) has frozen rules as compared the 400MH engine. I don't think anyone in this post realizes that the two classes (350 & 400) have different engine rules. The 400MH class has progressively added rule changes to improve the class and allow it to be a true mod engine. Removing the 25 engine from 350MH will simplify inspection should a true 400MH engine try to sneak in and race in 350MH.

                            I could go on about the past years of Mod concepts which started with the complete removal of the 400MH (then the 25MH class) but you guys don't seem to care.

                            Brian, you are in time out. I'm calling your Mother!

                            94H

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Thanks Bob

                              That is the kind of information I was looking for. Now I can base my vote on how I feel given all the facts.
                              Dave Mason
                              Just A Boat Racer

                              Comment

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