Super Thunderbolt demise - WHAT!!

[ram95]

As I slipped on the ice, busting my butt and ripping the crap out of my LL Bean jacket on the corner of my friggin snowplow coming out of Rite-Aide yesterday... I heard someone mention "yeah... super thunderbolt... that's a dead issue". WHAT

I realize I could make one phone call to Reed28N but that would be too easy.
I'd like to hear something... anything.. from the masses. Realizing that up here in "Vacationland" with ice storms and power outages the news often doesn't make it. So... what's up with Super Thunderbolt?

In the meantime, I'm going to be down in the 'tunnel of repair' (my shop) as opposed to the Tunnel of Despair (the novel) rebuilding another Kiekhaefer mag for a Super T-Bolt!!!.

Alex
the Mad Russian, 12A
Your friendly Region 1 Commissioner

[reed28n]

How many participants

How many drivers participated in the DSH or DSR in 2008?

How many new drivers used this motor configuration?

[ram95]

So what?

Scott, I'm not sure I follow you. Sounds like some decision has already been made to eliminate an engine from the D class. I wasn't aware of a discussion on the matter.

My thoughts are that we should be doing all we can to keep the D class as alive as possible. So it would seem only logical that any of the 40-44 inch mercs could run. I might run a Tohatsu, but I still think the Merc is a strong player.

There's a ton of those motors out there. Loosening up the interchangability of parts which was done last year was long overdue. IAI towers, Bass gearfoots, are available. More Merc gearfoot stuff is starting to make it's way out.

If some is being planned, I would like to see the entire 40/44 inch merc community have a say in the matter.

Alex

[Kev43V]

How many drivers participated in the DSH or DSR in 2008?

How new drivers used this motor configuration?

IMHO
Could it be possible that a better question would be, how many existing racers use that configuration?

[Kev43V]

Found a couple 15 HOT-RODS (116N) for BSH/AMH.......or should I pass?

19P

it may very well run in 15 not B but at least that is not a real change just a name change.
Have you gone and looked at the agenda?

[reed28n]

Super Thunderbolt

Scott, I'm not sure I follow you. Sounds like some decision has already been made to eliminate an engine from the D class. I wasn't aware of a discussion on the matter.

My thoughts are that we should be doing all we can to keep the D class as alive as possible. So it would seem only logical that any of the 40-44 inch mercs could run. I might run a Tohatsu, but I still think the Merc is a strong player.

There's a ton of those motors out there. Loosening up the interchangability of parts which was done last year was long overdue. IAI towers, Bass gearfoots, are available. More Merc gearfoot stuff is starting to make it's way out.

If some is being planned, I would like to see the entire 40/44 inch merc community have a say in the matter.

Alex

No decision was made. Everything gets voted on by commissioners and you are now one. It sounds like you have made your mind up on how you will vote.

I only get a vote if there is a tie....

In my opinion we should be moving forward and forward is not rummaging around in a junk yard searching for parts to build an old motor. Forward is existing 44xs used motors on the market and the New Tohatsu.

[brian]

I have an xs, race in the class and I like the idea of racing the older stuff.

1. Gives people who like to build motors and option.
2. Cheaper (maybe) powerhead
3. What is the harm. Inspection time is the same...LOL
4. Printing costs for changing online tech manual is somewhat affordable i hear.
5. Let them Race!

[ram95]

nuthin meaner than a Junk Yard D (dog)

Our economy keeps going in the direction it's going, this whole country will become a junk-yard and that's where we're gonna be shopping.

I think....One reason the T-bolt didn't run at the nationals is because the rule change wasn't posted in time. I'm glad to hear there's some support in the D ranks out there.

Alex

[bh/]

...forward is not rummaging around in a junk yard ...

OH , We need to find a pic of Scott "rummaging" in a junk yard.
No harm in that, although I mostly rummage in my barn, or flea markets in FL.

In principal I support the philosophy of allowing only readily available motors in stock o/b racing, but this sport needs all the entrys it can get.
DSH & DSR as a National class will need help getting re-establshed with the Tohatsu, and until then, the entry of a few D Classics/STs will fill out the fields.
I kicked myself for not bringing my M58H to Thompson CT last summer to support the small field of
DSHs there. We would not win, but would not have been last.
If I upgrade to a post '65 44" block with exhaust splitter and tuner pipe, we could be competitive with some current Ds, but never beat a good Nats motor.
The 44XS has 3-4 mph on a 'M58H', and without the tuner pipe, much more acceleration. Currently a good M58H/M500H will run in the high 70s.
Amending the rule as proposed, will effectively increase acceleration, but with no significant speed increase.
I sense that the delay in passing the complete ST rule package is due to fears that a [apparently] legal 'killer' motor could be built that would win at the Nats level,
and not be available to the public. My experience is that this is not factual.
But, if there is a sound basis for this opinion, not one based on conjecture, or fear, then we should hold the new rule back.
"Moving forward", the Tohatsu is the future of D stock, but until it gets established, I would rather rummage in a junk yard for 'ST' bits,
than rummage in a machine shop to tweak my 'stock' 44XS.

[stu_racing]

I say don't kill the t-bolt yet. I think some people were deterred from it last year because it was not fully passed. Dave Scott and Alan Akerstrom worked hard, and throughout the year worked to remedy the problems in the rules that could allow these motors to become the ace-in-the-whole at nationals.
Also, people have asked how many of these were out there to race last year? This is not a fair question for a new or probationary motor. You could ask the same thing for new sidewinders and find even less of them than the t-bolts.
With all the DSH drivers that are selling off their equipment, how many DSH entries are going to be left with just the Tohatsu motors being produced. And unfortunately they are not being produced at a fast enough rate to keep the DSH entries in high points high enough to stay a legal class. There's probably 1/3 of the needed 35 entries that are Tohatsu. Even if you don't agree with older motors being retrofitted for current racing if you vote against the t-bolt you might be forcing DSH racers to not race for national points. Not very fair since there is an economical solution being proposed right now. For example, there were 47 DSH racers in 2008. I was one, running a classic (stepping up) one race, and running another the other 3 races that I was borrowing. Brian Rossman ran that same boat in one race, so you shouldn't count us in DSH for consistent entries. You're down to 45. Minus the 4-5 rigs that have been for sale on here, you're down to 40 entries. 5 more entries don't make it out and you have eliminated DSH from 2010 national racing. Using that reasoning you may be killing the class unintentionally. You allow 5-10 t-bolts to race next year and the DSH class is safe for another year.

[deverhart1]

T bolt

I have been working on several project motors in different classes for a number of years putting things together as I get them. I have almost got a D stock motor together to race at least at Top O Mich. I also race D Mod R and H both along with Antique Pro Classes. I only need a spare gear case to be complete for a T Bolt D. I frankly don't understand why such a hurry to kill a class. When I race mods usually everybody is having fun, when I race pro usually everybody is also having fun, it seems as if whenever I try to race Stock sombody has a rule preventing this or that or my motor is to old or not the right ignition or the carb has to be hooked up a different way or the covers all have to be on and the decals can only say a certain thing. If it weren't for wanting to do Top O at least once in my life I really don't think I would bother with stock as I evidently don't have enough green in the pocket to afford to compete on that particular play ground. Now that I have upset all the stock guys about their rules per say, I guess that I'll spend more time on my Antique Pro motor projects as the old D MOD motor is runnin pretty good without all the BS. Don't misunderstand that I don't believe in rules. I think there is nothing wrong with them. Everybody should have to follow them just as they are written. And everybody should have to be inspected and be disqualified if they are cheating. I work very hard to follow all of the rules and am even more proud when I beat someone knowing I am 100 per cent legal. My problem is when I am almost there some one takes the ball and goes home because a fat guy like me might beat them. Ha Ha guess they don't want another boat to count toward D Stock. David Everhart S52

[bh/]

"I frankly don't understand why such a hurry to kill a class. ..."

Dave; if the motor you are building is M55H based with a 40" powerhead, or early centre plug/4D mag/KA carbs. 44", ST block then you are legal as a DStock. You can enter and have fun in a DS race, and will be competitve as a marathon racer. DO IT
What is being discussed here was a proposal tabled last year at the AGM, permitting the newer offset plug ST block, with split exhaust plate and tuner tube, to be legal in Dstock.
Although initially supported by the SORC, it was later 'tabled' , and now seems to be dead.
I understand there were fears that a motor built to these specs could be more than competitive, and be a 44xs killer, if not a Tohatsu beater.
If so, this would totally disrupt the development of D stock.
If not, it would support the class with more entrys in D stock.

To echo Steve's remarks, thankfully we have Scott Reed as stock commisioner during these discussions, as he has a deep family background in this issue, is open minded, and seeks sound advice.
I just wish it would get resolved , as I have one on the bench ready to go together

[jeff55v]

I have almost got a D stock motor together to race at least at Top O Mich. ... If it weren't for wanting to do Top O at least once in my life I really don't think I would bother with stock as I evidently don't have enough green in the pocket to afford to compete on that particular play ground.

I can relate.
If it weren't for my wanting to race Top O', I'd have never gone to Stock Outboard.

Don't be discouraged Dave, hang in there. Let's see what happens at the National meeting. As far as I'm concerned, you can race that T-bolt alongside me any time.

.

[ram95]

There's no doubt in my military mind, that a person can go to the boneyard and your local merc dealer and your pals on HR and come up with enough of the 'right stuff' to create a box stock (built from parts with a Kiekhaefer or Bowling Ball Co part number, or parts made to OEM specs) that will be a monster on the lake. And THAT is the reason i want to see the T-bolt still in the mix. The parts I'm speaking of are those that are already 'interchangeable' between the 4 cyl 40-44 inch mercs. Additionally, I'd like to see a paragraph worded which addressed things that do not contribute to the performance characteristics of the engine. Such as clamp brackets, decals, methods of connecting the throttle or spark advance.

But... lest someone try to sue me for misleading them by saying I'm directing them to Sanford and Sons... or SFJYFR (steve frencho's junk yard for racers)... let me warn you: Get ready to spend time and money $$$$$ to build that creature... and be prepared to maintain the mutha.

Now, some folks (like myself and Dave & Jeff & Steve ) are gluttons for punishment - we love beating our heads against the wall.... because it feels SO GOOD when you stop.

I began SAVE money and to feel better when I bought my Bass-Tohatsu, not because I don't love Mercs, but because the doctor told me "Son, yer gonna start drinkin if yer don't stop drivin thet hot rod Lincoln". He apparently confused the Mercury for a ahhhhhhblahhhh blahh you got the point.

I'm going to go have a warm! Warm?? Yeah.. warm, cause it's MINUS -22 outside at the moment, so the beer is warmer. But it's going to taste so good.

Alex
Mad Russian Racing