Electronic scoring systems

[B Walker]

I believe an electronic scoring system with web based real time reporting to be a key element in the sucessful promotion and growth of Outboard racing.

Also, if implemented properly, an electronic scoring system will improve accuracy, results reporting, and give more information while reducing the workload on the scoring comittee.

Electronic scoring systems are in common use in all forms of racing events. Disposable, waterproof, cheap,and reliable Radio Frequency ID (RFID) tags are used at marathon running events, bicycle racing, all forms of motorsport racing and even Radio Controlled (RC) car and boat racing events.

The newest generation of timing equipment uses Magnetic Field sensors instead of Radio Frequency. This is important because RF in the spectrum designated by the FCC for RFID tags has difficulty passing through water. Magnetic fields pass through water with no interference or signal degredation. I am assuming an underwater pickup sensor as an overhead sensor seems difficult and impractical to implement.

Companies like Zoomius http://zoomi.us/ti/zoomius/index.html Champion Chip http://www.championchip.com/ and accuchip http://www.eteamz.com/accuchiptiming...cfm?cat=249418
are all manufacturing proven race timing equipment.

So what are the pros and cons? What would it take to implement this technology into Outboard racing? Do you think its a high or low priority?

Brad Walker

General info about RFID systems:
http://www.rfidjournal.com/article/a...view/4365/2/1/

[Graham 18ce]

I'd like to get the timing done all automated, but that is out of my ablitly to create and program. I'm planning on talking to a friend and see what can be done to develope a cost effective package. Still too early to see what it will come with but i'm tired of not having the times posted after a heat and best judgement used on start lines because boats are behind the spray and can't be seen, un-readable numbers on boats, etc.
I'm not a scorer but i have spent enough time on the stand to see they could benifit. It didn't take to long, everyone she see what they go through. They do great work, without reward, usually without praise. Now it is time to give back to them and the sport.

Price will climb as you need a bunch of sensors on the boats. I'd guess most clubs could get away with 100 sensors for the boats, sell them at a slight profit to help recoupe expenses to the drivers that race the clubs regularly, charge a rental fee to those who do not own the sensors. Could be done by diposite if you were not out to cover the costs of the equipement.

I would also like to incorporate the use of still framed starting again. Done digitally on the computer using a bullet cam. This would give the scorers still frames at "0", not close to "0" as video age has been a step backwards in my mind.
But really, if going to the step of digital timing, we don't really need the starting camera anymore either.

Just my 2 cents to get thought process going.
Graham 18ce

[B Walker]

more info

The disposeable waterproof adhesive sensors can cost as little as 40 cents each.

1 is required per boat and have a 7 digit alpha numeric unique identifier which produces millions of combinations of unique identities.

The real expense is in the receiver and other parts to the system.

Heres a link to a RFID supplier to get an idea of the pieces, parts and prices of a RFID system.

http://www.atlasrfidstore.com/

I can easily see an electronic scoring system completely replacing any need for Video on the judges stand. Except possibly as a backup system.


BW

[Graham 18ce]

I'll have to look into these RFID tags. a quick look showed the beam path on the linear model to be 40 degrees. That is much higher than race setups would need to be. I'll check them out a bit and see what options are there.
Not the cheapest receivers either.

Thanks for the info though...
I'll keep moving forward at this point and seew hat i can get figured and priced out.

[Finishtiming]

Timing systems already available

My name is Mike Chatfield. I have been around racing my whole life with many different forms of boat racing and I understand boat racing more than most that do any kind of timing. I own Finishtiming.com and I supply the timing for the Champboat series. I have the largest timing company in the midwest for track and field and running events using systems similar to what you are stating above. I also use a system (DBCOM) for the Champboat series. It handles all the scoring and timing plus outputs results to the web in real time. The systems is actually quite cost effective compared to most and works very well. I am also the technical support for DBCOM scoring and timing. We have developed a portable transmitter that attaches to the boat with some heavy duty velcro and runs from 2 9-volt batteries. We also have wired units that we use in boats that have a 12 volt battery. We have been using them in parallel with a manual scoring system for the last 2 years in the series. The system comes with all you need to get started and with 20 transmitters for the boats that you can sell back to the racers at the cost of them and make half your money back.

Everyone seems to think you can just adapt rfid to make it work for motorsports and it does work quite well with motorsports on land. The problem you have with water are a couple. First, with RFID systems the chip (placed on the vehicle) has to pass over an antenna (mat or wire) and can only be about 3-4 feet above it. Secondly how do you stretch a wire under the water and keep it in a perfect line and then also keep it close enough to pick but also deep enough to not get cut by a prop (or patrol boat). Thirdly, RFID is very bad about working around water.

The DBCOM system has worked these bugs out by placing your antenna on the shore and pointing out at the line. The beam it uses to pick the boats up then starts to pick the boat as soon as it enters the area and continues until it leaves the area and then makes some calculations to get back to the line. I have run this side by side with a Fully Automatic Camera system and also hand stopwatches and it is very accurate. We have tested the system in offshore and have actually picked boats up almost a 1/4 mile away from shore. The only downfall we have found with it at all (and it is not a problem for us as we do not use clock starts) is you could not use it to show your gun jumpers as there is not an exact line.

I know for a fact there are some other companies working on similar systems but they are not even close to getting a working product yet and may not be for quite some time.

If you have more questions about this system feel free to call me after the first of the year or email anytime. We give demos at your race site (or testing site) if needed and you can go to any of the races that we will be timing. If you buy a system and want someone to come to your site to help you set it up or even run your first race for you I am available for that also.

Thanks
Mike Chatfield
www.Finishtiming.com
mike@finishtiming.com
(937) 215-6299 (Ohio Eastern Standard Time)

[sam]

A ball park price?

[Finishtiming]

I think they run about 10,000 and you can sell your 20 transmitters back for the cost of 275 each and make half your investment back.

[sam]

Thanks .........

[Dave M]

Check The Propeller

Their ad is in the magazine................

[Finishtiming]

The owners from DBCOM will be at the APBA convention and also have a small presentation at the scorers section.

[Steve Johnson]

O.k.

sounds great , any idea's on how to pay for it. What clubs should be the ones to recieve it? If one is co owned by a region and shared? I can see an up side to this and a down. Fewer and bigger races with no conflicing weekends. If it is as grand as it should be ,No one would want to score the old fashioned way.

peace

[Kev43V]

But as the gentleman pointed out. The system will not identify gunjumpers.
At least at this time.

[bill boyes]

I have seen to system and have spoken with them several times. The system works very well. However, I really do not think it serves a 3 to 5 lap race very well. Over Kill to say the least. It works really well on a multiple lap race of 10 laps or more.

[CSR4C]

Check out real time scoring.

My son Aaron Sorensen (now & then boat racer) and his friend Mikhail Popov are running in a 72 hour race that ends in 2009. Up to date standings are at http://www.acrosstheyears.com/cgi-bin/liveresults.cgi
All the scoring is done electronicly, each contestant has a transponder straped to their ankle.
Also you can send an email message by going to the home page and click on Send a Greetings. I know they like to get lots of email, it keeps them going.

Thanks,
Darrell Sorensen
4-C

[Finishtiming]

AMB Chip

The chip system they are using is the AMB chip system for running. It is on the ankle due to the antennas they have to run across. The chip will not read much more than 3 feet off the ground. The AMB is a very good system but the chips are pretty expensive ($86) compared to others. I use a similar system to this made by IPICO. The chips for my system cost $3 and are half the size of a credit card. These type of systems will not work for boat racing as there is no way to get your antenna stretched across the course under water safely.

Good Luck to Aaron. I see that he is in fifth place as of now.