Possible Creation of a Pro Open class?

[Fast Freddie]

Uim

FYI:

The UIM fuel rules for "O" classes up through O-700 require methanol or ethanol (and allow possible water contamination) and ban other additives. Their basic test is to measure specific gravity with the limit now 0.83. The specific gravity limit eliminates the nitros, etc., which are "heavier." UIM also bans nitrous oxide.

Rule 508.06: "Only lubricating oil for two stroke engines may be added to the fuel. The use of any other additives is prohibited to either the fuel (carburant) or the air intake (comburant)."

Top class in UIM that is similar to APBA is O-700, if you wish to come up with a compatible class. However, UIM is not averse to adopting a class that "works" - O-125 is the example - if APBA develops something that would be attractive to the European teams.

My two cents,

Fred

[sam]

Moved my comments and questions to a new thread to keep Marc's thread more directly on topic: http://www.hydroracer.net/forums/sho...082#post118082

[Brian LaChapelle]

Why ban 4-stroke motors?

[raceright]

Here is my thought on this idea. If we run the same type of race course that we are running now, I dont think the tunnel boat would be that succesful. I think the sweeping turns would hurt it too much. If we are going to change the course to a one buoy turn to benefit the tunnel boat than I think you make the hydro non competitive. I know for myself that I cant afford to go buy another capsule boat if we went to this style of course. I think you would find other people that would not want to do this either. Also, are all these people that are for this idea going to buy a tunnel boat. What would one cost, $8,000.00 to $10,000.00? I know that the thought is if we conform to UIM rules that we could have more World events here or that we could compete over there. I still dont think you would have an event here more than once every three to four years. We dont have a federation to pay for our expenses to go overseas to race like some of the Europeans do. I would hate to think what it would cost to ship everything over there. Just my thoughts.

Well it seems like Doug said almost all.. As there is no capsule drivers building cats that I know of its a mute point. Thanks for trying to help mark but at the USTS meeting we decided to run the basic American style racing we run now..Now if someone wishes to change things and comes up with the finances like they get in europe let me know and I will discuess this (as I always do when capusle changes arrive) with all presently registered drivers.
We always have obsticals to over come in racing this year we had a few extra LIKE WIND RAIN AND YESS FIRE as well as just plain life like moving babies, new jobs and so on now like I said bucks help overcome most problems
but we have to use our own money not the Goverments(wait this might CHANGE )
LOLOLOLO

Pat

[Brian LaChapelle]

New Class.

How about this for a new class? Build for less than the cost for a J Merc.

<a href="http://video.msn.com/video.aspx?mkt=en-US&vid=7367e093-d3ae-4994-b446-db8e44208d40" target="_new" title="Extreme Hovercraft Racing"><img src="http://img1.catalog.video.msn.com/Image.aspx?uuid=7367e093-d3ae-4994-b446-db8e44208d40&w=112&h=84" border=0 alt="Extreme Hovercraft Racing" width=112 height=84><br />Extreme Hovercraft Racing</a>

[epugh66]

I think UIM just recentley rescinded the 60&#37; rule for classes O-125/175/250/350. As a trade off, the driver must kneel or lay down. I guess the modern Euro hydros were getting a little too tunnel like.

If a SST45 won the 700cc high point, is that a real big deal? I never cared much for high point, just my opinion. Now if they won USTS championship or the sprint championship, guess who needs to do their homework then?

Gary has built two F500 boats, both have been competing in Europe the last couple of seasons. So if the 60% rule were changed, there is already a boat tested out.

[David Weaver]

Devils Advocate

I can only think of a handful on new capsule boats built and raced in the US over the past 5 years. Doug's Pugh, MeKean's 2 Pughs, Thirbly's Pugh, Pat Wright's composite boat, and 2-3 built by Derek Gessler and Revolution.

From what I observe, a lot of the competing capsule boats are 10+ years old and will require replacing in the near future. So why not adopt an 1100cc "Open" class. Open to engine design and to haul design (subject to safety cell requriments). I can only see upside here. We still can race the typical US courses. Worst case, nobody builds anything different and we have the status quo. Best case, we gain particpants and move the sport forward.

The PRO capsule classes need additional participants. This may be a way to attract them. I have not seen any other suggestions to increase particpation in these classes. If Marc's suggestion (or some variation) is not adopted, what is the "Plan"??

Disclaimer - All outboard classes need to add growth. So we had all be considering new ideas. PRO is about innovation and not the status quo (except for the antique division). I do not support change for change sake. But, I increasingly see all of us (including myself) becoming entrenched the status quo. So let hear some well thought-out plans, have unemotional discsussion and shake-things-up a little.

Just my humble opinion....

[Composite Specialties]

Well, I guess Pat and Doug, you both summed it up..... No need to look into the future and make any changes for the betterment of the show or safety..... Just keep running the same ole same ole, we will all be just fine.

My point of this thread was to have open minded ideas that were not based on whom paid what for any boats or motors, just ideas of how we could make this supposedly top class even better. No one seems to complain when a person buys a new motor and then it is obsolete the next year or sometimes in the same year and those motors are from $7000 to $12,000 or more. So why is it that people always complain about buying another boat or boat prices, what is the difference? You cannot have one without the other unless you are going to strap the motor on your back and surf race!

I think we should drop the 60&#37; rule! I think we need to combine anything over 500cc into one big show with any kind of capsuled boats. I think we need to have our rules align with the UIM so the europeons can come over and race our top boats in a real world championship.

Anyway, thanks for all that did open their minds up to this idea, I appreciate all of your comments.

Well it seems like Doug said almost all.. As there is no capsule drivers building cats that I know of its a mute point. Thanks for trying to help mark but at the USTS meeting we decided to run the basic American style racing we run now..Now if someone wishes to change things and comes up with the finances like they get in europe let me know and I will discuess this (as I always do when capusle changes arrive) with all presently registered drivers.
We always have obsticals to over come in racing this year we had a few extra LIKE WIND RAIN AND YESS FIRE as well as just plain life like moving babies, new jobs and so on now like I said bucks help overcome most problems
but we have to use our own money not the Goverments(wait this might CHANGE )
LOLOLOLO

Pat

[raceright]

Well, I guess Pat and Doug, you both summed it up..... No need to look into the future and make any changes for the betterment of the show or safety..... Just keep running the same ole same ole, we will all be just fine.

My point of this thread was to have open minded ideas that were not based on whom paid what for any boats or motors, just ideas of how we could make this supposedly top class even better. No one seems to complain when a person buys a new motor and then it is obsolete the next year or sometimes in the same year and those motors are from $7000 to $12,000 or more. So why is it that people always complain about buying another boat or boat prices, what is the difference? You cannot have one without the other unless you are going to strap the motor on your back and surf race!

I think we should drop the 60% rule! I think we need to combine anything over 500cc into one big show with any kind of capsuled boats. I think we need to have our rules align with the UIM so the europeons can come over and race our top boats in a real world championship.

Anyway, thanks for all that did open their minds up to this idea, I appreciate all of your comments.

Mark don't make the mistake of thinking I'm not for
improvement remember I run a composite boat and not one but two and I have a mold that could be modified to increase sponsons lengths. I also have two modern 500 grm's and 4 modern Konnies. But as you requested capsules should be one class there are from my view and several other views that see other Runabout classes and small bore classes that run together that maybe should also be combined (125,175) (250,350) so as I and others leave this alone it would be nice to be given the same courtesy.. As far as European styles I'm not into it as they are not into what we do. But I will say we would run backward if the promoter has enough finacing to do so..

Hope this clears this up for you

Pat

[Composite Specialties]

Nope, not clear

Pat, I am not clear at all on this. The smaller classes have boat count, no need to combine them and most of them can finish a race and their motors are for the most part current. The capsule classes have a hand full of boat count with a mix of old and new motors that accross the board don't seem to finish races. Why not be open to change that can make all that you have one big show and allow europeons to come over with thier rigs and have a real world championship style race?

Remember, this is a discussion, an open discussion. There is no need for any hard feelings here so lets all keep it open minded.

Mark don't make the mistake of thinking I'm not for
improvement remember I run a composite boat and not one but two and I have a mold that could be modified to increase sponsons lengths. I also have two modern 500 grm's and 4 modern Konnies. But as you requested capsules should be one class there are from my view and several other views that see other Runabout classes and small bore classes that run together that maybe should also be combined (125,175) (250,350) so as I and others leave this alone it would be nice to be given the same courtesy.. As far as European styles I'm not into it as they are not into what we do. But I will say we would run backward if the promoter has enough finacing to do so..

Hope this clears this up for you

Pat

[Dave M]

One Opinion

Although it might not be worth much, I would say keep it Pro Style, don't let gas burners in, such as the SST45. Keep it Methonol only. The SST45 allready have two classes to race in, SST45 and 45SS I think. If that is not enough for them, then........

Personally I like the Pro Capsule classes. It really proves which boat builders can make a HYDRO work with a capsule. This is why I liked it. If Tunnels are allowed, I would say a seperate class be created to allow anything goes type racing. Sounds like fun. I tried to get a similar class into Mod about 15 years ago and it never made it to the table. Oh well.