A few questions about the mk30h

[Matt Dagostino]

Hell Yea !

No, the Mercs weren't eliminated from Stock because of parts availability although you couldn't just go down to your dealer and get most of them. It was simply because Matt and I had better rigs at the Nationals.

How true.............it was a case of the majority rules. Which in a democracy is a good thing. The 30H had a long and fruitful run in APBA and it was time to pass the torch onto the reliable and affordable Yamato 102 and 80. The 30H got so 'tweaked' over the years in Stock Outboard that very few 'killer' motors were out there. Sam and i each had one! It seemed fair that the 95% of the C class which were Yamatos deserved not to get abused by us any longer.

Now it is time to pass the torch onto the currently manufactured and affordable Merc 15 and send the OMC A motors to their resting place with the 30 H..........

Sorry, guess that thought needs a thread of its own!

[Morris85C]

you will see a very fast cmh an run about at the nationals this year an im no blow hard see ya there 85c

[STEVE FRENCH]

There was a guy bragging about his Wizard block C like the Wizard block was something special But never seen them win the Nationals

"Special"?....Not really......Have ya got a rig avail to see how UN-special it is?

Was look'n at Palmquist DSH rig at Franklin but could not swing whole rig to git hull.......

There was a Fred-somebody CMH rig that was for sale at Jessup that had won the Nats with some Gollar 30H motor but passed cause I was told ya need a "modern design" rig that will "fly" the corners?.....something about a "rocker" or a "step", he (Gollar) said ya could tell by how it would sit on trailer racks-Not flat, but with a gap at back from bottom to bunk?.........

Have watched several fast rigs from turn boat and many never "set" a sponson...conditions (outfront) permit'n........Amh-Ed Hearn,20ssh-Jennings,25MOD-Marshal (and me),DSH-Tom Smith/Sweeny....25ssh-Brewster/Marshal/Smith/me.........

Try'n to think outside the box...........ported Merc/Wizard with pro-foot...rig/driver with ability to "fly" corners.......Hey team Smith, wann'a try my motor?

I tried my motor on a "old school" CMH-"Classic" rig that Charlie Fry aquired from one of the Fitzgeralds and learned how important this is....it was fast as heck down the shoot....but when ya went to "set" sponson to turn it.....The fast rigs "around the course" where "fly'n" by on the outside'a ya........

Guess I'll just keep my dreams to myself.............Till the funds are avail in the O'l check-book

19P

[DiGia54D]

Steve, Just out of curiosity the guy said it was a Gollar 30H and it had won the Nationals? asking because Bobs Cmod is in his house. He used to have Vanover and Gonyea run it in the nationals. I did see Matts old one in a store window on Fred Zompa's, Giles boat. Matt it was all polished up. I never was able to see Sams merk mod run, but was able to follow his 102 mod around at a couple of races.
Guys good luck at the nationals.

[STEVE FRENCH]

Steve, Just out of curiosity the guy said it was a Gollar 30H and it had won the Nationals? asking because Bobs Cmod is in his house. He used to have Vanover and Gonyea run it in the nationals.

From the horses mouth....Bob Gollar was at Jessup and I got to spend some time with him....The rig for sale was a Bezoat's that I think Gonyea had driven at one time?.......sharp look'n rig with driver name on side >> Fred S---? when I saw it.
Would like to of bought it to get some time on the Wizard...but I have a large 80's 25ssh Bezoat's rig that Graminski 116N used to pilot that I use for now......not enough boat to race but a good mule for test'n and its against one wall of my wearhouse with a 1/2 dozen other mules.....if I'd had trailer at Jessup, it probably would of come home....stimulus check went in gas tank instead.

19

[David_L6]

Curiosity is killin' me!

Who was the last guy to win the Nationals in CMH with a Merc

Who was it?

[Team B&H]

TIM,

Nope, no return. The CMod Merc had its last good ride at the AOF Nationals in 1996- I think the dates right. I won the APBA Nationals at Bakersfield earlier that summer passing Kenny Rosado's Yamato on the outside- thank goodness they ran 4 laps there. Won the AOF CMH race as well. But Dan Parker asked me to shake down his Giles/Yamato because it was new and he wasn't happy with how it ran. I ran a couple laps and told him what I would change and then he asked me if I would race it in their Yamato modified class. Well I won that race as well and saw the potential of the Yamato. BTW, Parker sold the rig to Jack Stotts and he still runs it today. We did run the Merc at the APBA Nationals the next year in Hinton and I had the race won when they black flagged the race because someone -yes, I know who- flipped in the LAST TURN. The rerun ended up being a drag-race start with only about 4-5 legal boats. The Merc didn't like drag races and I think it was Parker who won with his Yamato. Like my brother says, Second Sucks! Soon after I found a reasonable C Mod Yamato.

[Dew1us]

No, David, I was not refering to you- can't remember you saying much about a C Merc before this. There was a guy bragging about his Wizard block C like the Wizard block was something special and some guy from the left coast. But never seen them win the Nationals

Hey Sam;

I believe My dad won with a Wizard block in CSH. I will confirm it later tonight when I talk to him.

[Team B&H]

The point about Wizard blocks is that they are nothing magical or special. Just as some 30 blocks are created more equal than others, some Wizard blocks are good while others are lousy. The rumored padded block not being legal even if they were any made. All you had to do to run good in C Stock was find a block with the intake transfer ports milled up high on the top port cover area and then take all the blocks like that and find one with the lowest intake port timing. You could find some with port timing of nominal minus .008 or 9. You needed a block with low port timing but also CC'd low. Bore it 030 and put in a good small journal crank assembly or a clearanced big journal one and you had a winner. You could squish the block a bit for even less CC. Most of the best blocks I found were very early MK-30s. I had a couple Wizard blocks but none were spectacular. 2- port cover blocks were useless in Stock save for being bouy anchors.

[dholt]

No wonder....

...these engines were eliminated.

This thread is proof positive of why those old school engines needed to go after 'x' amount of years.

"Finding" the good blocks, port timing this....special crank that....squish the block for lower cc's. It was true in 'C', and the old 20H, KG4, Mk 15, 55H, etc...

Not what SO is about. Sounds exactly like the Mod category.

There are good and bad Yamatos, OMC's and Hot Rods...but not nearly the parts scavenging, mystery, secret junk that used to exist.


I have 3 80's....all run exactly the same...fast.

And we've probably had 6 OMC powerheads over the years...all run the same...fast.

Only mystery is the Hot Rod. Some dogs...some firecrackers. All depends on the ports.

[Matt Dagostino]

Hum........

...

"Finding" the good blocks, port timing this....special crank that....squish the block for lower cc's. It was true in 'C', and the old 20H, KG4, Mk 15, 55H, etc...

Not what SO is about.

And we've probably had 6 OMC powerheads over the years...all run the same...fast.

Dana
The above quote sounds like the OMC A engine!
The OMC A engine in Stock Outboard is about as close to MOD as it gets!! The 'check list' France uses to find a good block and head etc etc would challenge the best scavengers in our sport. Oh, and how about the fact that it is legal to re-sleve the blocks and cut in your ports to match the configuration you want ( J,AX or A). As i said in a post on another thread it may be time to send this motor the way of the ole 30h and 55h....

I do give u guys credit though, your dad always could keep them OMC's rocking!

Matt

[Team B&H]

Of course by the time I got into CSH, people had been playing it for 25 years. Kind of hard to think in that amount of time, they hadn't learned any tricks to make it faster.

25 years...isn't that about the same length of time that Yamatos have been around? Want to show me a box-stock Yamato 80 that makes the finals at Whitney Point, Dana? I'd even go for an overbored one with new rings if the rest is box-stock. Walk from one end of the pits to the other and you're not going to find one. Same goes for the 102- ain't no such thing as a competitive un-altered Yamato. Why do you think TJ and Reed have plenty of customers? You probably can't even find one of the new 302 motors in a competitive, box-stock configuration.

Sure us Merc guys selected the right blocks, bored worn blocks straight, maybe pushed on it a little after the Mighigan 25SS guys showed us how, but you Yamato guys are milling, grinding, boring and honing to say nothing of trick bearings. Same thing, different motor. That's racing and why there are winters. Find me an OMC A motor at Whitney Point in the same configuration that OMC produced it, and I'll show a motor that won't be running in the finals.

[STEVE FRENCH]

So what can be learned from all the above when the Sidewinder motors come out?.............Should they be sealed at the factory and only ringed and resealed by a authorized service center?..like the Bombadier IROC go-karts?..or would that create a situation were those with the funds would buy a dozen,test em, and keep the best two?....Is it possible to produce anything that will perform within 2-3% consistant from one unit to the next?.......Can Sidewinder afford to blue-print/dyno each powerhead to a performance standard/window and pluck any over/under performers before sealed and sold?
Should ya show up with a rig/props and draw a number for yer motor that gets a random assigned number tag for the day and that's the motor ya run that day....kind'a like in Japan?
Guess this topic has been repeated more than most wann'a hear but outside of our current system amoung honorable folks and inspectors (to try and keep em so) with a rule book and specs....what else can ya do?

Locally, we have several dirt Kart tracks start'n up....so far all that is required is a Briggs 5HP flathead or the newer "animal" OHV 6(?)HP...any pump fuel/alcohal....1 year later guys are show'n up with $1200-$2000+ built motors with 19-22hp dyno sheets.......only thing that keeps em from runn'n away is the size of the track and number of entrants in their way..........But a few well set-up stockers with a good guess on tires can sometimes run with and pass a "loose cannon" over powered driver.....Its all RACE'N...........
Already talk'n about a box-stock sealed or claimer class one week and a open motor class the next.......Also winners 1st-5th go to back of field on next race.

Silas, this progably answers/nails yer original post .........
[QUOTE=Team B&H;110776]No, the Mercs weren't eliminated from Stock because of parts availability although you couldn't just go down to your dealer and get most of them. It was simply because Matt and I had better rigs at the Nationals. Once there were more Yamato owners in the class, someone figured out the power of the ballot. They had a proposal to eliminate the Merc and the votes to do it.
QUOTE]

This "power of the ballot" was exercised at the last National meet'n and will probably be worth watch'n at next meet'n for same senario as mensioned in Sam's quote...........to bad in my opinion, cause it has been competative and even brought some rigs back ,.......but it's the system we have....My question is does this sanario play out anytime someone does their homework and gets close to a
win with a minority motor?.....granted if they walk away at every event its not fun either.........but if someone takes a really good Merc in A-MOD, a Hot-Rod/Merc 20 in B-MOD, a Merc/Wizard in C-MOD. a 402 (LOL) in D-MOD, or a 650 Merc in FE and with the stars above and Lady luck on their side that day and a smoke'n start, drive their butt off and place in the top three, is this the reaction they can exspect from their Brotherhood?....If they smoke the class it should draw attension and adjustments made,...but....vote em out...?

19P

[wdlong1226]

well said

it, s NEVER gonna be a stock playin field TILL SOME ONE TAKES IT BY THE REINS AND TAKES CONTROL so ya,ll take care it,s been nice but iot,s been too much money for me to see my kids name in lights. 5 years of racing and trying hard day and i,m mean days at the lake but it just goes to show you what money can buy miss madison if ya seen the movie ya know what i mean seal blocks and see how popular all the top dogs stay

[sam]

My question is does this sanario play out anytime someone does their homework and gets close to a
win with a minority motor?.....granted if they walk away at every event its not fun either.........but if someone takes a really good Merc in A-MOD, a Hot-Rod/Merc 20 in B-MOD, a Merc/Wizard in C-MOD. a 402 (LOL) in D-MOD, or a 650 Merc in FE and with the stars above and Lady luck on their side that day and a smoke'n start, drive their butt off and place in the top three, is this the reaction they can exspect from their Brotherhood?....If they smoke the class it should draw attension and adjustments made,...but....vote em out...?

19P

Steve, you are confusing the actions of the Stock membership vs Mod. To my knowledge there has not been the same kind of voting out of a motor in Mod.