Gas prices & racing

[T Chance]

Everyone's situation is different, but I was thinking back to 30 some years ago when I was racing and raising a family. Gas was relatively cheap but I had a 3/4 ton Chevy pickup that got 8 mpg and it served as both my tow vehicle and my daily driver. Today my wife and I each drive a compact car for daily use and go racing with a mini van.

So, over the past third of a Century gas has gone way up. But so have wages and so has fuel economy. I actually believe that averaged out my family's driving costs less today than it did back then.

[dholt]

Sam,

In case you hadn't noticed, we're losing veterans in the sport on yearly basis already!

Something different needs to be done. Something that seriously changes the way we do business. The current model has to evolve. The reason we're declining is because the model hasn't changed in the 32 years I've been racing.

Class combinations rarely work, as many drivers run multiple classes...so when you combine, you nix them out of at least one of their rides. And there are very few classes that can safely be combined due to speeds and boat size.

There's always a risk to change...always a "what if". But by not changing...there is no "if". There's a guarantee that the steady decline WILL continue. The past 30-40 years proves that.

[14J]

What is needed is a reduction in the number of heats, not classes ...

Not sure how you do one without the other. I do agree that classes with numbers should take priority. This weekend at Lambertville the top 3 classes will get 3 days of racing over 2. I think this model is a move in the right direction.

[MGallagher]

At Lambertville we are doing a 3 days in 2 for a majority of our classes that will be run. The only way to do this is to consolidate an All Stock, All Mod, All J schedule and make it more streamline. If we do this twice a year our racers will get 3 weekends of racing while attending 2 weekends. I have the "Dan" theory, it is more than just $40 I think. Not only are the gas prices higher, but a majority of other things are as well. Add all those misc. price increases and the fuel crunch you feel at home(ie:work, commute, etc...) that is a much bigger investment than it was 5 years ago.

[Cameraboy]

I started with a long post in response to Dana about my experience with a three heat format, but realized I was getting too far into the trees. This is a forest issue (I'm not talking tree-hugging here). So I end up at the same place - a long post.

We're taking the year off this year due to some employment and family challenges, but also for me to try and take an objective look at why we (as a family) do this. We're not 2nd or 3rd generation, so we don't do this by birthright - it's because we like it. I have to be in my happy place to be able to do this boat racing thing; primarily because of the work I'll put in (as Dave Mason so eloquently put in another thread, we're in that category that pitch in because we're wired that way) and the additional frustration that work can add in addition to just the racing stuff. So it is a time, emotion and financial investment - all have a cost. Do I want to continue doing it? Sure - if I'm still having fun.

Had a chat with an acquaintance who quit running boats 10 years ago. He spent a day at a race checking things out. Things hadn't changed much in 10 years; people running the same boats, same motors (in some cases literally). He saw more classes and heard higher costs. He pointed out that he can race carts for the same amount (I know that's open for debate, but that's not the point) and not travel as much. As an ex-racer, he saw nothing, not even seeing old friends, that would make him come back. He was looking at it logically. Things he was saying were making a lot of sense, given his perspective.

My point is, that if you start applying too much logic to this hobby (obsession, etc), it doesn't compute. Look at some of the contradictions we (the royal we) run with:

1. We want new motors, but continue to pass rules that keep the old ones viable.

2. We want fewer classes, but keep adding new ones (or saving exisiting ones) to "maintain participation levels".

3. We want many races to be able to compete for National points, but then pick and choose the ones we participate in to maximize high points.

4. We agree that local racing is our strength, yet continue to encourage numerous "National" events with the enticement of more points for National honors.

5. We seem to accept (or ignore the reciepts - such a true statement) the cost of travel (to a point), but complain about the cost of parts, motors, and entry fees.

6. We want more race sites, but the ones that are most likely to want us are in rural areas that we don't want to travel to.

7. We want the financial benefit of sponsorship, but we don't want the hassle of selling it or of managing the crowds needed to sell it.

8. We want the younger generation to take over, but we want them to keep doing things the way we always have.

9. We seem to know where the door is, but continue to beat our heads against it.

10. We understand that as volunteer endeavor, they is us - but we are sure that it is they who are the ones that need to do a better job of [fill in the blank].

I'm reminded of the final scenes of the movie "War Games", where the computer loops itself into a game of Tic-Tac-Toe. The computer concludes (and I am not using the original geopolitical context of the quote) - "Interesting game - the only winning move is not to play". I'm really hoping that's not where I end up at the end of the summer. But it is the time, emotion and financial costs that will factor in.

This has been a long-winded way of kind of agreeing with Dan. People do this with different motivations, and they have different price points based upon that motivation and their economic situation. It's a matter of how much logic you are willing to suspend. It ain't just about gas.

[sam]

Well put again, Mike.

Sam,

In case you hadn't noticed, we're losing veterans in the sport on yearly basis already!
There's always a risk to change...always a "what if". But by not changing...there is no "if". There's a guarantee that the steady decline WILL continue. The past 30-40 years proves that.

Actually, we have been loosing members since before 1960 ... 1957 & 58 were the peak years. By 1960 there was already concern over the dramatically falling numbers. Somehow, magically, 50 years later, we haven't hit bottom yet.

The way I see it, there is no guarantee that new members will come, only a guarantee that veterans will leave no matter what.

The challenge is to attract new racers who both want to race and can afford to race. Unlike spectating at a NASCAR race, boat racing is not the "working man's sport"

Am I wrong or are entries about the same as last year at our races?

[immulmen]

My father in law raced in the late 50's and early 60's. just last weekend he told me he raced almost every weekend all in Maine. My son is new this year and we will attend the 2 races in Maine, the 1 in NH and the 1 in Connecticut. Any more will have to be if money, and time, allows. It would be so nice if we had some more races less then 100 miles but that can only happen with more people in boats.
Chris

[raceboat61-S]

Gents,
Like most threads here on Hydroracer.net, this discussion has morphed into a more general forum for addressing many issues that we must face as racers. I'm glad to get these discussions out in the open.
Now, the issue of more local races has been raised so let me make a point or two. The fixed costs of hosting a race have gone up so much that it now requires about $5000 to have a 2-day race. For a club to break even there must be about 100 entries for each day. Most clubs can't have a race unless other clubs support with about 30-40 entries to offset these costs. Sanction is $400, insurance $1879, rescue about $400-500, Porta-johns, delivering the club van/trailer, small renumeration for race officials, amortization of club equipment breakdowns, fuel, oil, buoys,ropes, generators,etc, etc.
Let's hear some ideas about reducing these costs. Is anyone willing to reduce the amount/type of insurance? Rescue? Let's hear it! Mike Marshall

[Silas_53A]

I couldn't agree more with dholt.

Class Permitted Motors
ASH, ASR Johnson & Evinrude “A”, Mercury “A,” Hot Rod, SO A Class Engine, Sidewinder A (probationary for 2008-09)
BSH, BSR Hot Rod A, Sidewinder 15 c.i.
CSH, CSR Yamato 102 & 302
DSH, DSR Mercury Mark 55-H, 402XS, Mercury/Mariner 44XS, Bass/Tohatsu
20SSH Yamato 80 or Yamato 102 & 302 with 7/16” Restrictor, Sidewinder 20 CID (probationary for 2008-09)
25SSH Mercury/25SS, Mercury/Mariner 25XS without carburetor restrictor, and Hot Rod (20 c.i.)
25SSR Mercury/25SS, Mercury/Mariner 25XS without carburetor restrictor, and Hot Rod (20 c.i.), Yamato 80, Yamato 302 (9/16” or 1/2” restrictor), Yamato 102 (9/16” or 1/2” restrictor), Sidewinder 20 CID (probationary for 2008-09)
45SS Johnson & Evinrude 45SS

There are 12 stock classes alone... and what, 8? of those have mods classes. only three of those classes run engines you can buy new (unless you run a restrictor plate). Now why is a Y80 allowed in bother 20ssh and 25ssr yet the 25xs is only allowed in 25ssr? and so on... In 25ssh the old hotrod 20 CID is legal but the new sidewinder 20CID isn't even probationary...

if a class has no new motors available other then running a new motor with a restrictor plate then eventually there will be none of the original motors left just new ones with restrictors, so why run the class at all. Ones like this could be integrated in another class. Not just thrown aside and told thier equipment is junk. but why keep a class going that doesn't have motors relatively available.

Now I am new, but from standing on the edge and looking in, and after attending and racing at my first race it would make complete sense to condence the classes even a little. Don't just CUT a class out, give people in the class a heads up and allow them to run their equipment in a similar class with a restrictor plate/different weight requirements/length and so on.

Now I got into racing relatively cheap, all said and done I spent probably under $4,000. I could have easily spent $2,000+ more. But just as dholt said, when you tell someone there are 4 races a year (for my local area) and depending on what class you want to run you may not get to race at all 4 and if you do you only get 12 laps all weekend. (at my first race there was only 2 BSH and a 20ssh, so they combined them to give them a chance to "race" if thats what you want to call it, and the 20ssh won everytime) But if you tell that person there are 6-8 (or more) and you can race at everyone in classes 6+ boats and like 24 laps (four races) then the chances they will stay interested greatly increases.

[Racerkyle20]

Nw...

Gas is very expensive, but not a deterrent for me to go 6000 miles to NY and back. I'm taking a diesel track back too (in Seattle $5.00 a gallon!)! The thing that you have to look at is where you put your money. I will be making some sacrafices to make this trip like:
-no hotels on the way over...that's why it's a truck. Cheaper hotels when at the race...i'll probably stay at the Ranch House in Depue with the NW antique guys cuz its like $30 a night!
-Cheaper beer...drink Bud light instead of Corona. lol.
-The biggest money saver is loading as many boats on to one trailer as possible...i watched Ed Hearn pull into Moses lake last year with about 10 boats on a trailer....sideways, ontop, and shoved into the enclosed part too.

I know several NW trailers making the trip and we all can't wait, but clearly gas is not a deterrent for US!

[Gunjumper]

Team Runne and Lyons pulled in AHEAD of Team Racecraft and we had just as many boats, Pennsylvania to Moses Lake - 2600 miles one way, fuel cost - didn't matter, we saved up and budgeted accordingly. I completely agree with Dana and Troy, as Matt mentioned, we are giving this a shot this weekend in Lambertville, I'll pay a few bucks more to get on the water a few more times. Troy made a great point, how many weekends do we have flawless weather, add a wind delay or two to a jam packed schedule and you have less racing in a weekend. Perfect example of Danas' point- I sincerely wanted to come to Alex for the Div's, would've made three straight races for me, had to cut one out and now I can afford to run a few more classes at the other two and still have some play money left. Dana, how can we cut back on race weekends without letting some other club members hang out to dry at a race with even less entries then we have already, not knocking your idea just wondering how to get the ball rolling. GL

[mercguy]

Gas is very expensive, but not a deterrent for me to go 6000 miles to NY and back. I'm taking a diesel track back too (in Seattle $5.00 a gallon!)! The thing that you have to look at is where you put your money. I will be making some sacrafices to make this trip like:
-no hotels on the way over...that's why it's a truck. Cheaper hotels when at the race...i'll probably stay at the Ranch House in Depue with the NW antique guys cuz its like $30 a night!
-Cheaper beer...drink Bud light instead of Corona. lol.
-The biggest money saver is loading as many boats on to one trailer as possible...i watched Ed Hearn pull into Moses lake last year with about 10 boats on a trailer....sideways, ontop, and shoved into the enclosed part too.

I know several NW trailers making the trip and we all can't wait, but clearly gas is not a deterrent for US!

uh......Kyle, the cost of gas to NY is SORT OF a deterrant for me...........as it will probably run close to $4300 for fuel (round trip). ........... there are 2 extra spaces (maybe 3) available on the Peeters Express to New York (and Depue)......

PS: Eatonville will probably be the last race I attend until the Nats (gotta save the $$$)....... brothers bachelor party is the weekend of Cullaby and the wedding is the weekend of Capital Lake.........

[dt 01]

Depue

ya i was thinking the same thing a 1000.00 a heat may be a little to much for me...... PRETTY BIG DETERRANT....

Dave Trisko 68R

[Silas_53A]

wow... 4300 on one trip!!!! OMG!!! I spent less then that on my complete race rig, safety equipment incuded.... WOW... Hope you have a good time, if I go to nationals its only like 400 miles... 40 gallons of gas, maybe $200 in gas...

[mercguy]

wow... 4300 on one trip!!!! OMG!!! I spent less then that on my complete race rig, safety equipment incuded.... WOW... Hope you have a good time, if I go to nationals its only like 400 miles... 40 gallons of gas, maybe $200 in gas...

yep, figure 6000+ miles (including the stop in Depue) at 8MPG (new Duramax) @ $5.50/gal for diesel.............

can you put a price on fun???????? Uh..........do not answer that........