Tow money vs Entry fee

[forshey99]

Fuel costs

Tow money is a good thing and so is prize money, but I have to agree with Dave Mason that $50 isn't making a serious impact in fuel costs. So maybe the way to go is not to worry about fuel costs and try to reduce/offset some of the other expenses. Greg Lyons touched on something that has real merit...reducing entry fees to help offset costs.

If a guy drives 250 miles each way, gets 12 miles to the gallon, and gas is $3.50...he'll spend roughly $145 in fuel. The same guy races 3 classes, $27 each, for 2 days........$162 in entry.

[Andrew 4CE]

I like the low to nil entry fee.

I'm driving somewhere all the time whether it's racing or doing something else... so fuel cost is always there, suck it up.

But if I know when I get there the expenses will be small, that's easier to convince the wife it's a good idea!

Tow money gets confusing too when guys team up and share trailers, or even with families racing out of one trailer but different addresses on their membership cards.

[randyrap]

I want PIZZA!!

Keep it simple ..... reduce the entry fees for multiple class racers and like Kerry said earlier, ''Use the money to feed the racers after the race''.

When your tummy is full of pizza and wings all is well.

[Brian10s]

Tow money gets confusing too when guys team up and share trailers, or even with families racing out of one trailer but different addresses on their membership cards.

In my initial thought on this, it was $ per trailer. So if you team up with somebody, you split the money. This was not "show up" money for each driver.

Just a clarification.

[Jack Stotts]

Reducing entry fees for those that run multiple classes seems to give more to those that bring more. Makes more sense than paying tow money which usually gives the same amount to a person bringing one class (myself included) and one who runs 4/5 classes.

[Graham 18ce]

Couple of more good points...Saving on Entry fee is always a good deal...like i said before...same over result for the weekend cost but the perspective put on it by Andrew is very true.
I go to Redwood every year as it is 20-25 per class. compare that to some at 40-45 a class. gas was the same to get there but feels good when you get there.
If you want to help more people reduce the overall entry fees...first class to third class. That way you are helping the guy who runs one boat or 4.

[blueskyracer]

I really think that what would bring me to a race is as much boat time once I get there and the friendships that you make. Maybe a nice barbaque at the end of Saturday and sharing stories.
I don't think tow money will come close to helping with the expense so why not put the money towards making the race as much fun as possible so that everyone comes back year after year.
Unfortunally at the rate prices have gone up in the last year, all sports from boat racing to car racing, horse, dog showing and all other sports, will only be avaliable to the baby boomers and NOT there kids. They just cannot afford it.
Our Son in-law wants to start racing but we are having to buy everything because they make just enough to pay the bills. They cannot afford $1400 for safety gear, $2800 for a new engine, and $2000 for a boat.
Maybe in 5 years or so things will equalize again. I still remember gas for 25 cents a gallon during corner gas wars.

[Dave M]

Good Thoughts

One point I saw impacted me. If you pay the tow money, the guy who does not care about saving on gas is going to use that towards entry fee anyways. In my opinion that is a win win situation. BW also hit upon a point with multiple teams out of one trailer. Pay it per trailer and they can split the funds for the fuel, as most likley they are car pooling for economics anyways.

Another point, the per trailer is almost a moot point, you have three drivers in one big trailer, you pay each of the three guys tow money, same as paying one trailer.. However, it would least impact the guys who vote for lower entry fee.

Bottom line is the bottom line. A lot of us have to watch this. A lot of us don't worry about it. The sport is racing, and a lot of us show up to race. The meeting people, friends and parties are a bonus that goes along with racing. It is the whole package, not just the comraderie, it is also the racing. Afterall, what drew a newbies interest first ? Seeing everyone shaking hands and having a beer, or the fact that they saw some boats racing on the water and was interested in participating ? If all you seek is comraderie the local watering hole can provide just that a lot cheaper than investing thousands into a racing rig. I feel the comraderie is simply a bonus to the racing. We will always have the parties, hanging out etc. It comes with the racing.

Larry Mcaffe is onto something good here I think, flat fee for entry and then pay tow money. I think AOF did this one year in Depue IL for their Nat's. It was in 2002. I remember because it was the year I won Nat's in both APBA and AOF and then got spanked by Ralph Cook in NBRA Nat's. It cost me less to race 6 classes at the AOF Nat's than it did race two classes at the APBA Nat's and the NBRA Nat's. And I had to join AOF to boot.

To be clear, I feel the farther you travel the more you should get. Keep it structured. A couple hour drive is nothing. 6 hours is a long ways for a lot of people. 5 hours is even a haul for a lot.

We can't worry about regions scheduling races on our dates in other regions. It is great to see this. It means we can race in a lot of places. The problem is we have a lot fewer racers in each region. Get to the root cause of that and increase your numbers. If one looks at the schedule this year I think you can race every weekend from May until November. That is a lot of racing and a lot of travel. And with the high point structure in APBA you can only take your FIRST I think 8. So why would i spend hundreds on gas after about the middle of June ? Here is where your tow money can come into play.

Just my opinions, and yes they are honest and sincere. I camp in a tent most weekends because it allows me to be competitive. Hence the couple hundred spent on a motel goes into the go fast budget.

[DougMc]

In my initial thought on this, it was $ per trailer. So if you team up with somebody, you split the money. This was not "show up" money for each driver.

Just a clarification.

I was for tow money until I saw your clarification. I'm for no or low entry fees in that case.

Here is my two cents which isn't worth much with the falling dollar.

I would expect advertised tow money for each driver from my trailer racing. You may run into trouble there. How would that work in a case where there is one trailer with two boats and the two racers coming from two parts of the state with different cars? Also, use mileage, not boats from out of state, to determine tow money. For example, I live less than 30 miles from the FL/GA line. Lakeland one year paid out of state drivers which excluded me even though I traveled further than some. I asked why and was given a little less than the others which was still nice. Reduced or free entry would help all drivers on the trailer if only the trailer gets tow money.

I oppose higher prize money since the faster racers will usually show up regardless. Your tow money or reduced fees may pull out the less competitive or dormant racers. Few racers are going to beat the likes of a Wartinger, Sutherland, Allen, etc so prize money won't motivate the majority.

I like the evening event idea. It seems in my experience too many racers go out to eat and skip the parties and your club's or sponsor's money goes to waste. Sponsors could become disillusioned in such a case. Such an event would have to be linked with awards to help encourage people to show.

My reading of hydroracer seems to point to that the NBRA guys have this stuff figured out and it might be worth a call to them to ask what they do and how they do it.

[39R]

Newberg 2008

For our 60th at Newberg Oregon this year, we also wrestled with tow money vs prize money in an effort to get people on the road. After setting a budget, we realized that if we just made the first entry fee for each driver free, that we would roughly handout the same amount.

We've not done this before and haven't heard of anyone else trying it, so we'll have to let you know how it went after the receipts are counted.

[brian]

Lower cost is lower cost. I am not for high entry fees so you can give it back to me as tow money.

The best answer is to raise 10k for each race then make the entry fee something small and pay for everyones gas! We could race for free if we raised more money. We just do not like to hit the pavement.

[blueskyracer]

One point I saw impacted me. If you pay the tow money, the guy who does not care about saving on gas is going to use that towards entry fee anyways. In my opinion that is a win win situation. BW also hit upon a point with multiple teams out of one trailer. Pay it per trailer and they can split the funds for the fuel, as most likley they are car pooling for economics anyways.

Another point, the per trailer is almost a moot point, you have three drivers in one big trailer, you pay each of the three guys tow money, same as paying one trailer.. However, it would least impact the guys who vote for lower entry fee.

Bottom line is the bottom line. A lot of us have to watch this. A lot of us don't worry about it. The sport is racing, and a lot of us show up to race. The meeting people, friends and parties are a bonus that goes along with racing. It is the whole package, not just the comraderie, it is also the racing. Afterall, what drew a newbies interest first ? Seeing everyone shaking hands and having a beer, or the fact that they saw some boats racing on the water and was interested in participating ? If all you seek is comraderie the local watering hole can provide just that a lot cheaper than investing thousands into a racing rig. I feel the comraderie is simply a bonus to the racing. We will always have the parties, hanging out etc. It comes with the racing.

Larry Mcaffe is onto something good here I think, flat fee for entry and then pay tow money. I think AOF did this one year in Depue IL for their Nat's. It was in 2002. I remember because it was the year I won Nat's in both APBA and AOF and then got spanked by Ralph Cook in NBRA Nat's. It cost me less to race 6 classes at the AOF Nat's than it did race two classes at the APBA Nat's and the NBRA Nat's. And I had to join AOF to boot.

To be clear, I feel the farther you travel the more you should get. Keep it structured. A couple hour drive is nothing. 6 hours is a long ways for a lot of people. 5 hours is even a haul for a lot.

We can't worry about regions scheduling races on our dates in other regions. It is great to see this. It means we can race in a lot of places. The problem is we have a lot fewer racers in each region. Get to the root cause of that and increase your numbers. If one looks at the schedule this year I think you can race every weekend from May until November. That is a lot of racing and a lot of travel. And with the high point structure in APBA you can only take your FIRST I think 8. So why would i spend hundreds on gas after about the middle of June ? Here is where your tow money can come into play.

Just my opinions, and yes they are honest and sincere. I camp in a tent most weekends because it allows me to be competitive. Hence the couple hundred spent on a motel goes into the go fast budget.

I am sorry. I thought this web site was called Hydroracer.net so I assumed we were all here because of racing. I took that for granted so I was pointing out the other stuff that makes for a great race. Personally I would never take my family bar hopping but I would definately take them to a race.

[T Chance]

Entry fees, tow money or prize money have never been a factor in my decision to go or not go to a race.

[csh12M]

Tow money

I agree with all of your points Brian. I just look at tow money as a bonus. If fuel does not factor in your decision then use the $ towards entry. I am now a single class racer so tow means more than entry to me. I was on the fence on Lakemore, but penciled it in for the 2008 season. I am not saying that is was because of the tow money, but it did play a part in the decision.

BTW is the Harley bar still down the road there?

Later,
12M

[Bill Huson]

low entry for multiple classes?

That would work and as a bonus for the spectators many racers might be tempted to go for another *cheap entry* ride by stepping up and/or running their rig in any SO/MOD/PRO class it is legal in!