Tohatsu in MOD???

[sam]

I'm saying that the Stocks qualify - because - they meet the letter of the Mod rules. There are no specific "step up" rules that would allow a Stock motor to be legal in Mod just because it is approved in Stock.

The argument I am seeing here calls for that ... calling for "because it is a legal Stock motor, it should also be a legal Mod motor" for D

There is no rule like this in the Mod rule book for any class

[mercguy]

Please tell me the page, the rule and the number you are referring to

open up your rule book to the "permittable" motors allowed in the MOD classes........

[mercguy]

I'm saying that the Stocks qualify - because - they meet the letter of the Mod rules. There are no specific "step up" rules that would allow a Stock motor to be legal in Mod just because it is approved in Stock.

The argument I am seeing here calls for that ... calling for "because it is a legal Stock motor, it should also be a legal Mod motor" for D

There is no rule like this in the Mod rule book for any class

Sam says "The argument I am seeing here calls for that ... calling for "because it is a legal Stock motor, it should also be a legal Mod motor" for D"

........pretty much the same as the 44XS........why would not the Tohatsu qualify?

a "good" Dmod motor (Merc) should have no problem beating a "stock" Tohatsu, unless that Dmod motor is sub-par (or a hacked together POS). Hell, a real good STOCK 44XS can beat quite a few Merc Dmod motors.........I just do not see the reasoning here, except for being partial to one brand of motor........

[brian]

Sam is correct here.

Two words "Loop Charged",
mod can use 4 blades,
no height rules,

If your request was granted mod inspectors must also be qualified to be stock inspector. The rules of the game are not set up to have the stock rules applied in mod. The xs can run because it is the same motor. You could use after market pistons in your xs and run it in mod, you could kill the plastic, etc. The stock rules do not apply.

[jeff55v]

MOD process...

The MORC does not have the power to insert an engine into a class. It only has the power to make it a prototype and place it on the ballot for the class drivers to approve.

Brian is right. The process in MOD is a bit different than S.O.
I'd like to see the engine (in stock form) approved for D MOD also. It would mean more race time on the water for me. And more entry fee money for the conducting club.
But, I don't think D MOD is hurting for participants or engines. So I doubt any D Mod drivers will vote this stock motor into the class.
Bummer.

[mercguy]

Sam is correct here.

Two words "Loop Charged",
mod can use 4 blades,
no height rules,

If your request was granted mod inspectors must also be qualified to be stock inspector. The rules of the game are not set up to have the stock rules applied in mod. T"r market pistons in your xs and run it in mod, you could kill the plastic, etc. The stock rules do not apply.

did I miss the part where the rule for "loopers" is stated??? And the inspection reason you stated has no bearing either, as there are ALREADY stock motors racing in MOD classes! Hell, half the field sometimes in CMH are running stock yamatos, so that idea does not seem to be very applicable.

Brian, you say "the xs can run because it is the same motor. ", well that is to be held true with the Tohatsu ALSO, except for the height and prop rule in MOD. What you guys are missing here is NO ONE is asking for the Tohatsu to be allowed to be ported, beveled, lightened, etc to be allowed to race in DMod, but rather the motor remaining in the STOCK condition, as it is raced in MOD.

it would also help the DMR class!

[mercguy]

Brian is right. The process in MOD is a bit different than S.O.
I'd like to see the engine (in stock form) approved for D MOD also. It would mean more race time on the water for me. And more entry fee money for the conducting club.
But, I don't think D MOD is hurting for participants or engines. So I doubt any D Mod drivers will vote this stock motor into the class.
Bummer.

But, I don't think D MOD is hurting for participants or engines. So I doubt any D Mod drivers will vote this stock motor into the class.

................why not let the driver's decide then? But, as proved in the past, SOMETIMES it is not best to let the drivers decide, as they usually have a personal interest at heart.........

by the way Dmod is hurting in Reg10! We have pretty much one of the fastest DMH's in the country and he only gets to race with 3/4 boats most of the time........why not allow a few more out there to race with him? It would suck to bring in more $$$ for the conducting club...........and more members in Dmod (I am sure all the Tohatsu owners would run DMod and that would be an additional 10 or so rigs in the class)..........

[Art K]

Tohatsu

NBRA allows the 44xs and the Tohatsu in stock form in our D-Mod class. But our D mod class is different from APBA the D mod engine is the 40ci Merc in mod form. The 3 three engines are very close speed wise and produce terriffic racing. Our E-mod class only allows the 44ci Merc. We do have a person running a 50 hp Yamaha in mod form in SE same as FE. If you were too compare the Yamaha and Tohatsu internally there is not much difference. But I guarantee the the mod Yamaha will go past the 44 like its tied to a pole. Just would not be a good idea to allow the Tohatsu in mod form to run in APBA D-Mod.
Art K

[mercguy]

Nbra

NBRA allows the 44xs and the Tohatsu in stock form in our D-Mod class. But our D mod class is different from APBA the D mod engine is the 40ci Merc in mod form. The 3 three engines are very close speed wise and produce terriffic racing. Our E-mod class only allows the 44ci Merc. We do have a person running a 50 hp Yamaha in mod form in SE same as FE. If you were too compare the Yamaha and Tohatsu internally there is not much difference. But I guarantee the the mod Yamaha will go past the 44 like its tied to a pole. Just would not be a good idea to allow the Tohatsu in mod form to run in APBA D-Mod.
Art K

Art, I believe the NBRA has a very good racing format and believe what you are saying. But, the Tohatsu in APBA and being allowed in the Dmod class is being submitted to run in "stock" from, no additional modifications to be allowed (as it is raced in Dstock), except for the use of a 4 blade prop and the removal of the height restriction. I will agree if the motor is allowed lots of internal mods, it will smoke a 44mod, but that is not the proposal (and never has been). The motor is too new to be allowed to run in FE with additional mods. Maybe 10yrs down the road the plan might work, but no need at this time. Thanks for your comments.

[David_L6]

The Stock 44xs does not get a pass into D Mod because it is a legal Stock motor, it is legal in D Mod because it conforms to all D Mod rules

Thank you Sam!

The 44XS can race in mod because it conforms to existing D Mod rules. There is no rule saying that you must modify the 44 Merc to race it in D Mod.

The Tohatsu does not conform to existing D Mod rules. Appears that whomever is trying to get the motor in D Mod is doing it the right way, it just isn't working out for them....

I still say (and as long as parts are available to build a Mercury 44 D Mod, will say) leave the class alone. If someone wants to race D Mod, race equipment that is legal for the class. Want to race a Tohatsu? Race it in the class it is legal in. No other racers in your area race the class you want to race? Maybe you need to reconsider your choice of classes. I like C Mod but there is only 1 in TX, 1 in LA (mine), 0 in MS, and 0 AR. I quit racing C Mod and race classes that are raced in my area.

Want to buy a "new", ready to race motor but don't want to buy a Yamato or a 44XS (hopefully the Sidewinder will be an option soon also)? Race PRO. Want the rules set up strictly by displacement? Race PRO. Want to race close to home? Race what others in your area are racing.

[Merc1]

You just answered your own question. Down the road what do you think the next logical step for a tohatsu owner would be? "Why not let us make it a real mod?" Then the 65 guys who raced with the current legal motor this season would have to go out and buy a new motor to be able to compete. Don't try and fix what isn't broken for the benifit of one guy.

[mercguy]

Thank you Sam!

The 44XS can race in mod because it conforms to existing D Mod rules. There is no rule saying that you must modify the 44 Merc to race it in D Mod.

The Tohatsu does not conform to existing D Mod rules. Appears that whomever is trying to get the motor in D Mod is doing it the right way, it just isn't working out for them....

I still say (and as long as parts are available to build a Mercury 44 D Mod, will say) leave the class alone. If someone wants to race D Mod, race equipment that is legal for the class. Want to race a Tohatsu? Race it in the class it is legal in. No other racers in your area race the class you want to race? Maybe you need to reconsider your choice of classes. I like C Mod but there is only 1 in TX, 1 in LA (mine), 0 in MS, and 0 AR. I quit racing C Mod and race classes that are raced in my area.

Want to buy a "new", ready to race motor but don't want to buy a Yamato or a 44XS (hopefully the Sidewinder will be an option soon also)? Race PRO. Want the rules set up strictly by displacement? Race PRO. Want to race close to home? Race what others in your area are racing.

here is the point (hypothetical) that is being introduced. One person is very interested in getting a DSH class started in his/her region and that person bought a new Tohatsu (he/she did not want to "piece" a motor together from USED parts). So, while he/she is working on getting the class started, that person would like to race with the Dmods, since there are a few in the region, thus he would be introducing another boat for the field. Then, when a couple others buy a Tohatsu (or even 44XS), that person would have a class to race in. Is that so aweful? Seems like a plan for the future in building the DSH class (and also bringing in more participation in Dmod)...........seems all other motors have the ability to race in diferent classes, thus giving a guy more "bang for the buck". Seems a "win win" situation for both categories...............and like I stated before, it would also help the Dmod class in Reg10 also, along with a couple other regions.

[mercguy]

You just answered your own question. Down the road what do you think the next logical step for a tohatsu owner would be? "Why not let us make it a real mod?" Then the 65 guys who raced with the current legal motor this season would have to go out and buy a new motor to be able to compete. Don't try and fix what isn't broken on account of one guy.

no, not even. If that was the case, putting the motor (if allowed to be modified) in FE WOULD be the wise choice, although still believe the OMC would win.

NO ONE is asking for MODS to be allowed on the Tohatsu (in either stock or mod classes), which is what most people seem to be thinking!

[David_L6]

no, not even. If that was the case, putting the motor in FE WOULD be the wise choice, although still believe the OMC would win.

NO ONE is asking for MODS to be allowed on the Tohatsu (in either stock or mod classes), which is what most people seem to be thinking!

Yeah, the OMC is going to be tough to beat with the existing rules. If I were going to race FE these days (and I am) I'd race with an OMC motor (and I am). If Quincy was still in business and 20/40/60 pistons and rings were still available I'd just have to give it a shot with a Merc though......


Personally, I don't care what is done to the Tohatsu motor as long as a class that is and has been doing just fine (D Mod) with the existing approved motors isn't messed with. Just look at the hornets nest that was stirred up in D Stock......... Why don't we allow another motor to race in C Stock? What would the current C Stock racers have to say about that? I'd bet they'd say "Don't mess with a class that's doing OK as is"!


Want to race a Tohatsu? Race D Stock. Want to race D Mod? Seems there are two choices: Either gather the support needed to get another motor approved for D Mod or buy/build a motor that is currently legal for D Mod. Like I said earlier, it appears that someone is going about it the right way but it just isn't working out to suit them. Maybe that's because more D Mod racers are happy with the current motor rules than are unhappy with them?

[Dave M]

Darren

Why not let the one guy you are talking about run it at your local events in D Mod ? You said they simply want to go out for another class, and not really be competitive. So I assume from this that this person has no interest in competing in D Mod, they simply want a boat ride. So with that being said, go out in D Mod, and simply fail to go to inspection, simple as that. If they don't care about being competitive and finish last or near last they probably won't be inspected at a local race anyways.

So theroy wise they could go out and race witht he D Mods. Using method above, or simply declare this is a probationary engine you are racing in D Mod to determine if it is competitive with the current D Mod engines. I think Brian Williams spelled that out in his post on probabtionary engines being introduced.

Of course this all hinges on the persons desire to simply want to go out for more seat time and not be competitive, which is in fact what you are saying, I think.