What's the Coaming Side Rule Status

[crankbearing]

Hey All,

What is up with the coaming side rule. Is it a go or not? If it is are there any specs or rules yet. material? etc...

Regards,

[14-H]

On the SO Agenda

This has been placed on the Stock Outboard Agenda under old business.

[kws]

i have to wonder about all the broken right sides of boats, that people come out of. (if this passes) will the boats now have unbroken sides and the drivers have broken ribs?

[Brian10s]

No, the composite sides will be no harder on the ribs than wooden sides. The composite sides are supposed to absorbthe impact of the blow and reduce penetration. They are not supposed to or will be be an iron shield.

No sides (wooden or composite) have the ability to completely eliminate any chance of injury. Wooden, foam or composite sides are all attached to the boat the same ways and therefor all have equal risk to ribs and such. All sides have the same weak points (attached to the hull along the bottom via glue joints and to the transom and steering board). The only difference is, with the use of composites, there is a significant reduction in the likely hood of penetration from outside forces, thus adding a margin of safety to the driver.

[14-H]

***The only difference is, with the use of composites, there is a significant reduction in the likely hood of penetration from outside forces, thus adding a margin of safety to the driver.

Really? I recall the cry for data and testing in a thread about engine parity or something. Shouldn't that apply here, too?

Where's the info on the likelihood that a composite cockpit side will not deflect/force an impacting boat into the driver's exposed head? !!!

Add: Ironic that one of the few guys to drive an all-carbon boat would be saying this, huh?

[kws]

i think if they are constructed so that things dont penatrate. then they will not give nearly as much when a driver hits the side of the boat on the way out of said boat. therefor the driver must give. thats why they got rid of steel dashes in cars in the late sixtys and went to padded dashes to reduce injury from hitting things that dont give

[stu_racing]

The thing to remember with these safety rules are the materials used. I have no difintive data but a long time ago I did a high school science fair project on how these materials held up. Fiberglass and Kevlar gave way quite a bit (with Kevlar giving way the most) before they eventually broke. Carbonfiber had a higher tolerance to stress but snapped like a twig. All three materials were epoxied to a piece of composite that was the same thickness for all the tests. The composite was also tested by itself. Obviously the composite was much weaker than the composite pieces with material on them.

The thing to remember is that composite is much weaker than wood. If these materials are applied to wood than the wood is obviously much stronger than it once was. So from my primitive experiment about 7-8 years ago I would have to say that these materials could help from cockpit sides being penetrated but you will probably also see more injuries to drivers getting tossed from boats, hitting the cockpit sides on the way out. The question then becomes what happens more, boats penetrating cockpit sides, or drivers falling out? I know I went all year seeing 1 collision, where the cockpit sides were not penetrated and both drivers were ok after being tossed from their boats, and about 6 other drivers get tossed from their boat (including me once at Thompson, CT) and 3 of those drivers breaking a cockpit side on their way out, and 1 of the three getting seriously hurt (and that was from a prop).

Making a rule requiring these materials can add to more injuries, and this is coming from a guy that owns and builds carbon boats. In my next composite boats I will have either fiberglass or kevlar cockpit sides on composite and not carbon. I feel that this combination would be ideal for driver protection as long as it is done properly, which cannot be reinforced by a rule in APBA unless you have certified people making them. And that bring up the cost issue which I do not want to debate.

[22W]

Are you kidding? Over a year of talking about this and finally those with reason in their heads speak up? Kill this turd before it hits the water. Please!

[crankbearing]

agreed

Are you kidding? Over a year of talking about this and finally those with reason in their heads speak up? Kill this turd before it hits the water. Please!

Hey Ryan,

I agree, The whole point of the kevlar or carbon is too make them less resistant to impact that they do not break on impact well the fact now is and I think someone stated it before we do not have pointed pickles any more and now we round them off thus creating a ramp effect for the boat that is riding up the side of the other boat and over top of the coaming that won't break.

I just want to know because I want to finish this boat in my garage and I do not want it to be not raceable come spring.

Do these composite manufacturers not have some kind of impact testing do***entation we could draw a conclusion from.

Regards,

[jsilvestri]

There has to be plenty of testing data because the OPC catagory has required impact certification for some time for those who build capsules. This data would be the same for kneeldown racers who are building cockpit sides. Plus, there are some kneeldown racers who have tested and built all kinds of composite cockpit sides and they would be a good source to contact.

[pops67g]

I'm all for safety but......

Unless we build a bunch of boats and test crash them (like the auto industry) under controlled conditions all we can do is guess and argue about the merits of the change. If exactly the same kinds of injuries were happening over and over I can see rules to eliminate them, but I don't believe that's the case here. Most of our crashes are the one-boat variety and I don't think we can legislate softer water.

[G Stillwill]

If you look back to before pickles and high cockpit sides in almost every case a boat would go right over another boat taking the taking the drive out and showing him what kind of prop you were running. There was nothing to catch the front of the boat on when it hit the coming side. Now with rounded pickles and reinforced sides your right back to that senierio the force has to go somewhere and that somewhere is over top of the boat that gets hit. Im all for safety and all the last boats that I build have either both sides of the right side reinforced with 5 oz Kevlar between two pieces of plywood. The pickles though not rounded are blunted off on and angle and not to a sharpe point. I sould hope that if there is a rule change that it will done as the Mod Division did and make it as any new boat after a certain date has to have it done. Im all for safety and protecting the drivers but not by protecting them in the wrong way and getting them hurt even worse by a rule change that didnt work.

[BP125V]

Hmmmm....

Look at the avatars with hydros on the posts on this thread. There is more driver showing vertically than there is boat. Composite sides are going to protect their upper torso and head how? Look at the pics showing the left hand side of the boats like KWS and Stu_racing, how is a composite side going to protect their left arms that are hanging out over the deck? Stock/Mod/J racing here in the states is not the same as OPC racing or UIM laydown racing that they run in Europe. There is no one size fits all fix. What are we trying to fix anyways? One guy gets pickled through the cockpit side in thousands of boat/heats run and we have to change everything? I don't get it.

My biggest concern is that we are going to inadvertantly make the boats MORE dangerous by rushing some rules into place before truly understanding what the ramifications are.

Bill

can't wait for Detroit

[Brian10s]

Really? I recall the cry for data and testing in a thread about engine parity or something. Shouldn't that apply here, too?

Where's the info on the likelihood that a composite cockpit side will not deflect/force an impacting boat into the driver's exposed head? !!!

Add: Ironic that one of the few guys to drive an all-carbon boat would be saying this, huh?

Data!?!? Kinda of like the data we had in proposing the height rule change in CSH? Should I call Mark Miskerick and Billy Allen and see if they bought composite sides? Wasn't that an arguement you used this time last year? What data did we have when we mandated kevlar sleves and pants? What data caused 99% of drivers to switch over to full face helmets?

To compare race engines with adding a layer of protective material (the same protective material that we readily accept and cover our bodies with) to the side of a boat to lower the likelyhood of an injury seems to be painting with a big brush, don't you think?

[Brian10s]

One guy gets pickled through the cockpit side in thousands of boat/heats run and we have to change everything? I don't get it.
Bill

can't wait for Detroit

For 2 yrs, I have been beating my **** head against the brick wall. WHY!?!? To try and make my sport and my family safer. You guys don't want safer, unless it has $250,000 worth of research data to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt. Why, because it will never happen to you, right? And yes, only one guy got pickled - me. I thought it would never happen either!

I guess you all are like Nascar. Adam Petty dies, nothing. Kenny Irwin dies, nothing. Dale Earnhart dies - you get the car of tomorrow, safer barriers, hans device and many others.
So who has to get hurt next? Who is our Dale Earnhart that when something happens and they get hurt, you decide it might not hurt your wallet that much to do something?