Current US gas prices

[David Weaver]

Different Times

I remember travelling to races in the 70's with my parents. The concern was not so much the price of gas, but could we secure gas along the way to make it there and then back home again. At races, the sponsors or host clubs made a tank full of gas available to each team in order to attract participants.

I may be mistaken, but in the early - mid 70's were gas prices regulated by the gov?

Now, I do not worry if I have enough gas to get to DePue for the weekend, but I know that I will catch hell as my wife adds up the receipts!! Of course, gas prices are not regulated today.

So, maybe that's the choice: Regulated, but low availability or unregulated and the market will bare what the consumer will spend.

MY adjustment is likely one night's rest in the back of the Sequoia and I will travel at a little lower speed (OK, for one hour anyway then I get impatient).

DW

[G Stillwill]

I worked for a major oil company from 1965 to 1979 so I know pretty much how they work from the inside. There never was a shortage of oil back in the 70's it was just a ploy to get fuel prices up. There were ships ancored in the river for as far as you could see full of crude with no place to put it as all the storage in the refinery were full , all the gas stations were full that had computers systems as the dealer could only pump so much without the release numbers. At the end of the year the company made so much windfall profits they gave every employee a 1000.00 in stock so they could cover up alot of the profits and that was from the top worker all way down to the broom pushers. Now since 2000 the oil companys have been buying eack other out, less companys less competion, Exxon bought Mobil, Chevron bought Texaco, BP bought Amoco and so on. Now with the big profits they are buying back stock instead of looking for more oil plus getting big tax breaks from the gov. As far as importing oil almost every bit of oil from Alaska is exported and not used in the U.S. When the oil companys control from drilling to retailing they control the prices. Its easy to shut a pipeline down for a day or have a so called problem at a refinery just so there is an excuse to bump up the price. The greatest one was a couple months ago when the price of crude went up becasue there was a fog in the channel and the ships couldnt move for a day. Alot of this is Wall Street driving up the price of crude. Aone day gas out wont work but picking on one oil compnay for a month has a greater inpact, sure they all whole sale product back and forth between companys but they also cant loose there distribitor and retail outlets either. Pick on one company for a month then move on to another. Dont get me wrong I can see a bussiness making money and showing a good size profit but where is enough enough, when companys show profits of over 20 billion dollars quater after quater and have CEO's retiring with 400 million dollars, oh the CEO of BP just retired with just 23 million must of been a peion As far as building new refinerys Ed is right they havent as first no one wants one hear them, the EPA wont issue the permits, and so on but what they have done is expanded the ones they have to produce more product. Sure we probably burn more fuel and there are more cars on the road and more people but most cars now get twice the fuel mileage then back in the 70's and 80's my 1971 Mustang got 13 MPH and the one I have now gets 26 MPG. As far as selling a prop for 1000.00 if it were an oil company it would be no less then 3000.00 as there is a grave shortage of them

[Dave M]

[QUOTE=14-H;80040]
And, by the way, Dave: If you believe everything you hear on the news (especially CNN for God's sake) we need to have a serious talk. I'll see you at Huntington: you bring the beer. QUOTE]

Ed, who should I believe, the Lawyers or CNN ? At least CNN is only reporting findings, and not trying to convince you one way or another.

As far as knowing what the problem is, I doubt there is any one thing causing the infalted prices. What I do know, is that cost of living has become much greater all over the U.S..

I don't know the answers, but I always look for solutions. Answers are relative, solutions have impact.

[Original Looper 1]

Re: The envy of the Old Mafia?

If you could go back to Al Capone's day and tell him there would be a group of individuals in America some day as powerful as this group, as interconnected as this group, as elite as this group, as immune from legal accountability as this group, he would tell you (I think) to stop drinking his bootlegged wiskey. Go to theyrule.net and see who your corporate overlords are.

Free markets and free monopolies are 2 distinctly different things. Don't let them sell you one as the other.

Absolute power absolutely corrupts.

thanks,

Paul A Christner

[Steve Johnson]

Oh heck

Just keep on waving that flag...

[ricochet112]

[QUOTE=G Stillwill;80063]I worked for a major oil company from 1965 to 1979 so I know pretty much how they work from the inside. There never was a shortage of oil back in the 70's it was just a ploy to get fuel prices up.

So your saying the OPEC oil embargo didn't happen? Was Bush involved in that too?

[G Stillwill]

Im just saying there was an advertised embargo but in all reality there was crude over flowing in this country at the time. At the same time OPEC was making just as much as the oil company. I remember seeing the docks full or cars and big trucks being exported to the OPEC countrys , cargo ships with the deck full of them. At the time I was offered a job to go over and teach driving big trucks at about three time what I was making, but I dont like sand that much unless its has water attached and at the time they had about 40 miles of paved roads. Yes they were spending the profits in this country but those profits were coming from the american people. Lets put it this way if you were in the dessert and had a pocket full of money and I had water and knew if I made you wait for it you would pay double its worth to get it. Then I could buy twice as much water and do the same thing to the next two guys so it just snow balls once you find you can get away with it. Oh and I cant remeber who was president then, if they dont do something really stupid or use cigars for other then smoking I dont remember them

[Jim Porter]

Oil prices - what's going on

This gasoline thing is beginning to remind me a lot of Enron. Has anyone read the tapes of conversations between the operators at power plants and the Enron energy traders? It will make your blood boil. Things like "take plant #23 off-line between 2:00 P.M. and 5:00 P.M. this afternoon - we're gonna stick it to granny". Reply - "yeah - if she wants to run her a/c this afternoon she's gonna have to pay". And this is tame - the degree of the collusion between the utilities and the energy traders was unbelievable! They all made huge excess profits - until they got caught!

I think somewhat the same thing may be going on with the refinery shut-downs right now. In the short run the demand for gasoline is so inelastic that a small change in supply (down) leads to a huge change in price (up).
The reason i say that is that up until 2-3 years ago in the spring the price would go up gradually. I mean that over the period March - June prices would rise by maybe $.20 - $.30/gallon and it would take weeks and weeks to max out. I know all the reasons - summer driving season, changing over to EPA required "botique" fuel mixtures, refineries down for scheduled maintenance, etc. But now the price goes up $.70 - $1.00/gallon in a matter of weeks! They've got us used to it now - they know that, in the short run, most of us have no choice.

Yes - I know that we haven't built any refineries in the U.S. in 30 years but there's enough blame to go around. It's not all nimbys and enviromentalists. Up until a couple of years ago there was very little money to be made refining crude oil. The oil companies didn't want to build new refineries! They'd rather spend the money giving huge bonuses, buying each other out, or buying their own stock back. And right now when they are making these enormous profits they're doing the same thing - not spending any more money on trying to find new sources of oil.

Mr. Ed - from your previous posts I am not surprised that you do not like CNN. I suspect that you get all your "fair and balanced" news from the Faux Noise Channel.

[ricochet112]

Please Read

Or listen to on CD, "Sleeping with the Devil" How Washington Sold Our Soul for Saudi Crude, by Robert Baer.

Robert Baer was a CIA case officer in the Directorate of Operations from 1976 to 1997, where he served in Middle Eastern countries, including Iraq.

It is scarily parallel to Enron. Except this involves weapons sales also.

[14-H]

Ed, who should I believe, the Lawyers or CNN ?

NEITHER!

At least CNN is only reporting findings, and not trying to convince you one way or another.

Dave: we really must talk! Ed.

[Steve Johnson]

You really want to KNOW????

required listening ....Jello Biafra "beyond the valley of the gift police"

you will LEARN to think for your self
however thinking for yourself is dangerous.

[Richard K.C. Mo.]

It's All Good!!!

We are getting closer to waking the sleeping giant.!!
Ya'll have fun hea.
RichardKCMo

[ricochet112]

required listening ....Jello Biafra "beyond the valley of the gift police"

you will LEARN to think for your self
however thinking for yourself is dangerous.

He sounds like Steve Martin with the angry undertones of George Carlin.

[Original Looper 1]

Is this the reason for our current greasin?

I found this very informative article on the web site www.Rense.com, by Public Citizen organization. It explains a lot.


Myths and Facts about Oil Refineries in the United States

The Bush administration and some members of Congress blame environmental rules for causing strains on refining capacity, prompting shortages and driving up prices. But in reality, it is uncompetitive actions by a handful of companies with large control over our nation’s gas markets that is directly causing these high prices.

Myth 1: Oil refineries are not being built in the U.S. because environmental regulations, particularly the Clean Air Act, are so bureaucratic and burdensome that refiners cannot get permits.

Fact: Environmental regulations are not preventing new refineries from being built in the U.S. From 1975 to 2000, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) received only one permit request for a new refinery. And in March, EPA approved Arizona Clean Fuels’ application for an air permit for a proposed refinery in Arizona. In addition, oil companies are regularly applying for – and receiving – permits to modify and expand their existing refineries.[1]

Myth 2: The U.S. oil refinery market is competitive.

Fact: Actually, industry consolidation is limiting competition in oil refining sector. The largest five oil refiners in the United States (ExxonMobil, ConocoPhillips, BP, Valero and Royal Dutch Shell) now control over half (56.3%) of domestic oil refinery capacity; the top ten refiners control 83%. Only ten years ago, these top five oil companies only controlled about one-third (34.5%) of domestic refinery capacity; the top ten controlled 55.6%. This dramatic increase in the control of just the top five companies makes it easier for oil companies to manipulate gasoline supplies by intentionally withholding supplies in order to drive up prices. Indeed, the U.S. Federal Trade Commission (FTC) concluded in March 2001 that oil companies had intentionally withheld supplies of gasoline from the market as a tactic to drive up prices—all as a “profit-maximizing strategy.” A May 2004 U.S. Governmental Accountability Office (GAO) report also found that mergers in the oil industry directly led to higher prices—and this report did not even include the large mergers after the year 2000, such as ChevronTexaco and ConocoPhillips. Yet, just one week after Hurricane Katrina, the FTC approved yet another merger of refinery giants—Valero Energy and Premcor—giving Valero 13% of the national market share. These actions, while costing consumers billions of dollars in overcharges, have not been challenged by the U.S. government.

Myth 3: The United States has maxed out its oil refining capability.

Fact: Oil companies have exploited their strong market position to intentionally restrict refining capacity by driving smaller, independent refiners out of business. A congressional investigation uncovered internal memos written by the major oil companies operating in the U.S. discussing their successful strategies to maximize profits by forcing independent refineries out of business, resulting in tighter refinery capacity. From 1995-2002, 97% of the more than 920,000 barrels of oil per day of capacity that have been shut down were owned and operated by smaller, independent refiners. Were this capacity to be in operation today, refiners could use it to better meet today’s reformulated gasoline blend needs.

Profit margins for oil refiners have been at record highs. In 1999, for every gallon of gasoline refined from crude oil, U.S. oil refiners made a profit of 22.8 cents. By 2004, the profits jumped 80% to 40.8 cents per gallon of gasoline refined. Between 2001 and mid-2005, the combined profits for the biggest five refiners was $228 billion.

Gutting environmental laws for oil refinery siting will not solve the high gas prices.

So what should be done?

Improve regulations over the over-concentrated oil industry
The most effective way to protect consumers is to restore competitive markets. Congress should limit the financial incentives oil companies have to keep gasoline supplies artificially tight by mandating minimum storage of gasoline, reevaluating recent mergers, investigating anticompetitive practices, and re-regulating oil trading.

Adopt tougher fuel economy standards
In 2004, the EPA found that the average fuel economy of 2004 vehicles is 20.8 miles per gallon (mpg), compared to 22.1 mpg in 1987—a six percent decline. This decline is attributable to the fact that fuel economy standards have not been meaningfully increased since the 1980s, while sales of fuel inefficient SUVs and pickups have exploded: in 1987, 28% of new vehicles sold were light trucks, compared to 48% in 2004. Billions of gallons of oil could be saved if significant fuel economy increases were mandated. Improving fuel economy standards for passenger vehicles from 27.5 to 40 mpg, and for light trucks (including SUVs and vans) from 20.7 to 27.5 mpg by 2015 would reduce our gasoline consumption by one-third. Dramatic reductions in consumption will not only reduce strain on America’s refinery output, but also on Americans’ pocketbooks.

[Richard K.C. Mo.]

couple of good ones

He sounds like Steve Martin with the angry undertones of George Carlin.

You picked 2 good 'uns there, at least Steve Martin doesn't use his status to bash Carlin onthe othe hand would look like an owl if he looked as far left as he thinks, probly even see moscow.

I think George from Va. and Looper are closer to the truth on this than anyone.

I'm not privy to any info other than what i read on the web but as i said earlyer Dems and Pubs are different in the fact they each have their hand in the opposite pocket.
RichardKCMo