Future of Boat Racing

[Smitty]

Hydro doc, the one part of what you say that I don't quite agree with concerns the length of a race day and the number of classes. A boat race is not a football or baseball game with a beginning and an end. I remember the huge crowds at the outboard races (Saturday) and Inboard races (Sunday) at Greenlake in the middle of Seattle in the Sixties. This was also still the peak of classic Unlimited racing, which was an enormous recruiting tool for getting Seattle-area boys like me into outboard racing, and men in Inboards. People who were not racers but were still avid fans would come from all over the greater Seattle area to watch the racers, as did people in the immediate neighborhood. But nobody thought of it in the way you think of stick-and-ball sports in which you want to get to your seat in time to see the start, and stay until the last strikeout. At a race, whether a boatrace, drag race, motocross, roadrace, or kart race, the spectators then and now get there when they get there, stay for a few hours, and then go home. Spectators have no interest in watching trophies handed out; why would they? The action's over. So I disagree with the idea I've seen expressed on these pages by several people that to draw spectators, we have to have short programs with no more than a half-dozen classes with full fields. That wasn't what made the boat races popular in the Sixties, and I think you have to look elsewhere for answers.

There's nothing to stop any club from trying this for a season or two, but I doubt it will produce any increase in numbers of spectators (and some of the racers in classes that don't make the show will quit rather than run a class they don't really care for).

[daveracerdsh]

SOA and region ten get there J drivers from a bunch of places...word of mouth (the kids have SO much fun) the Wooden boat festival, etc. As far as 302 SSH? This class of course is my "baby" so to speak....and myself and Jeff Brewster are working as I type this to grow the class. But, to grow the class, we have tp have everybody on the same page.....more on that to come.

[propfxrO84]

Smitty, you might ought to check out Steve David's "state of H1" on offshoreonly.com ..... He has quoted the exact opposite of what you just said.

[krazy karl]

And none of the spectators, the few we get, understand why they watch the same boat run 4 classes, ie: CSH, CMH, 20SSH and OSY. Doesn't make any sense. We need to go back to A,B,C,D and F. If that is for hydros, runabouts, stock and mod that is still a bunch. That doesn't even include pro. First so it makes sense and second to fill up the fields and shorten the day and to cut costs for ambulance, emt's and whatever else. It took me a couple of years to figure it all out the way it is now. I still don't really know the reason for AXSH and to be honest don't really care. KISS Keep It Simple Stupid Sorry for the vent but the whole thing is nuts. Someone at the store where I work asked me the other day about the racing. He said the rules must be pretty basic and he couldn't believe it when I said the rule book is about 3" thick. If we want to attract new people, we need to simplify. Or we can continue racing for ourselves and watch boat racing go away as we get older and have to give it up and no new blood to take our places.

The economy is getting better, now is the time to grab new people before carting, motocross etc grab em all. If we don't it's lights out guys and gals.
kk

[Hydro doc]

We in NBRA are selling a program of entrainment and asking sponsors to pay us to provide that show. We have different rules in NBRA than APBA that helps us put on a entertaining package. The basics deference is the scoring methods. In NBRA, you need to only win by inches to be scored, no times are taken and you get points for that win. APBA rules require times taken for each heat and points are given for over all or the two heat finishes. Thus, to win the race you must win by the largest time, requiring the driver to win by the largest margin. This is not conducive to close racing. We use to have enough boats in each state to have local races, much like the environment in the Seattle area today. Now, it is necessary to travel 6-8 hrs. to race. My remarks about decreasing the number of heats and the time that the team leaves the race course is the direct result of personal experience. families need to get home to attend work on Monday. I've been racing for 65 years, and it's been my observation that after 4:00-4:30 that the only people watching the races are us. We can speed up our program by having flights, and time constraints. Getting home at a decent hours makes Moma happy and when she's happy everyone is happy.

[Smitty]

[partial QUOTE=Smitty] . . . . a boat race is not a football or baseball game with a beginning and an end. I remember the huge crowds at the outboard races (Saturday) and Inboard races (Sunday) at Greenlake in the middle of Seattle in the Sixties. This was also still the peak of classic Unlimited racing, which was an enormous recruiting tool (for us) . . . . But nobody thought of it in the way you think of stick-and-ball sports in which you want to get to your seat in time to see the start, and stay until the last strikeout. At a race, whether a boatrace, drag race, motocross, roadrace, or kart race, the spectators then and now get there when they get there, stay for a few hours, and then go home. .[/QUOTE]

(Quote propfxrO84)~~Smitty, you might ought to check out Steve David's "state of H1" on offshoreonly.com ..... He has quoted the exact opposite of what you just said. (end Quote)

Thanks for the link, I just took a look. And I agree with this point he made:

(Quote) "David said the series is aware that its target audience isn’t excited about sitting on the river banks for eight hours watching 40 minutes of racing.(end quote)

Right on. However, Unlimited racing is (or WAS) a different sort of thing from outboard and Inboard racing, being rather more like football or baseball in important ways. Just as fans of the latter sports go to the games already knowing the teams and a lot of the players, Seattle fans of the Unlimiteds went to the Seafair races already knowing most of the boats that would be racing against each other. This race was a single event, with maybe a dozen boats contending, An outboard or Inboard race is a bunch of separate two-heat events, and is not the same thing at all.
To be comparable to Unlimited racing, we'd have to have something like a circuit in which say fifteen 350cc Hydros travel around the country and race each other over several heats and three hours or so. And maybe they would have short names from the places they come from to help build fan identification: Miss Seattle, Miss Chocktaw, Kansas City Star, Saratoga Screamer, and so forth. And if they raced in Japanese-style marine stadiums, you could sell food and beer, let the fans place bets, all the stuff done at horse races, . . . and this could be legally done by the indian reservations, and the state of Nevada, as an added attraction to the casinos, with fans coming and going between them (I have brought up this notion of an American version of pari-mutuel outboard racing, as a possible way to attract serious money, but nobody ever likes the idea).

(FWIW, I would also say of modern Unlimited racing is that it has some other problems. First, fans used to learn names like Miss Wahoo and Tempo VII and Harrah's Club. Now the boats have names like, "Amalgamated Storm-Door and Window Frame Presents Veeblefitzer Savings and Loan." There ought to be a board that approves names. And the adoption of turbine power was a mistake that USAC was wise enough to avoid for the future of the Indy 500).

[Smitty]

HydroDoc, I take your point that the programs can get long for the families of racers (let alone fans). However, families also get tired when spending all day at a daughter's dance recital/contest or her horse-show or many other events in which one family member competes and the rest of the family has to live with it. Maybe you change the event, maybe you give them all laptops and game-boys and smart-phones, maybe you leave them with relatives or friends. When you make decisions on changing the event to placate un-involved family members, remember not all racers have or bring families, pets, et al, and they deserve some input on this, too.

[PRO-MOTIONRACING]

In many sports you compete with others based on your abilities. In golf and bowling the use the handicap system, In high school sports they use the Junior Varsity system and in motorcycle racing you race against others of the same skill and/or age level.
While I do ride the same bike as the champions of Supercross, if I had to race them every week it would not take long to grow tired of getting my ask kicked and move on. instead I am mid way through a great winter season racing with a bunch of guys with similar skills. (Masters-C and 125cc-A)
A similar system in our Yamato classes would go a long way when it comes to getting old racers back and retaining the new racers we do get.

[ricochet112]

Racers have made the rule book convoluted, cheaters get new rules written, not DQ'd. Too many motor box protectors. But with limited motor manufacturers and a small racer base, we walk a fine line. As long as the inmates rule the asylum, nothing will ever change...

[propfxrO84]

This is my last post on this subject, ever. Stop, look, and Listen to the : NBRA, USTS, and now Steve David. Frame up a "show" and then run it like a dictatorship. Quit letting a bunch of old timers tell you how it was in the 50's-60's-70's. That ship has sailed. I am not against history and what men have accomplished in the ol days, but, we don't need to be STUCK in the past........I never thought I would have uttered these words in my life but, I have lost interest after almost 25 years of racing. I have watched real participation and real progress ceased, (except for flashes of brilliance in NBRA & USTS.........LISTEN to ME, you need to be "relevant" nowadays!!! PUT ON A **** SHOW, & pay prize money, ( money, don't tell me it ain't out there cause it definitely IS) Also, new drivers would come in and STAY in if they didn't have to have a dad or grandpa that raced for 40+ years & knew how to cheat real good on an antique, obsolete OB motor. Truth hurts. I'm sure this will butt hurt a lot of folks but, step back and try to save this thing.........or not. Good luck. BT. If you are wondering, I think I am gonna continue to sponsor 2 outdoor MX teams and build another sprint car. You know, put my money where my mouth is.

[runabout333]

What he said!!!!

[Smitty]

[QUOTE=propfxrO84;n428180] Quit letting a bunch of old timers tell you how it was in the 50's-60's-70's. QUOTE]

He means me (gasp)!!!

Okay, I should have made it clear that talking about that seemed to me to be relevant because it was in those days that outboard (and Inboard and U-boat) racing actually HAD good numbers of competitors and watchers . . . nationwide. In other words, when theorizing about what MIGHT work, it might be useful to look at what DID work.

Beyond that, I agree that what did work might very well not work today. But I read a lot of ideas here, and just because they are new thinking doesn't mean that they will do any good.

And FWIW, propfxr, I have offered an all-new idea. But nobody likes it, LOL.

[Robert M Keogler]

“Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.”

[propfxrO84]

Keogler, all i can say is.....Wow, I cannot believe you just posted that. I guess you totally missed the point. Good luck with bringing back the hey days from the 1940-1960's. thanks for DRIVING HOME my point. Ha ha

[Smitty]

I think you missed my point. But it doesn't matter.

[chuck w]

This was my first year of boat racing. I would like to start by saying the people have been great. I have learned there is alot more than boats and motors that make a class. Its the people. I chose a stock runabout to start out for many reasons but the main was it seemed to be a entry level class in stock outboard racing Meaning all motors are verry close in speed. Thats what i thought. I am not sure of how things in the past were done and dont know about the future but i can tell you right now if you want to get involved on a entry level class and have any chance at all of winning you are going to have to spend for a motor. In the past i raced motocross. Totally different from boat racing. I think they say 80 percent rider 20 percent bike. You race with people with similar abilities and you can pick up a used competitive bike cheap. i have freinds that come by the garage that i raced mx with and see the boats and are interested in boat racing and i am always trying to get new people involved. Its unfortunate that when i tell them how much i can find them good used equipment for at a decent price but i have to tell them you could learn but you will never win with it. You will have to spend. As far as rules go they just seem like guidelines from what i observe. There has to be a better way to make it fair for everyone. Good racing is tight and close. There is nothing better than a good battle to keep me involved in racing and coming back.

[Dave M]

Chuck W - Very good post. People seem to overlook the fact that there is NOTHING stock about stock outboarding. They should have changed the category name many many years, even decades ago to stay relevant. In the general publics eye, STOCK means they can walk into a dealer and buy it. In most anywhere in the country. And your point on the rules.... stock .... LOL..... ya, about as stock as a Super E Hydro in the modified category. To many rules to keep track of leads to lost interest. To few rules leads to lost interest. There have been many a thread on how to fix our sport, some seem to be valid, others seem wild. One thing is for sure, if you don't change witht the times, time will pass you buy. I think its to late for some.