Methanol = GOOD - Ethanol = BAD

[kampenracing]

Ethanol

Ethanol is legal in NBRA

[ricochet112]

Is next week, FYI they have been using Ethanol since at least 2007, I have not heard of their drivers complaining about their fuel, If it is good enough for 650 hp motors, I think it would be good enough for the A.P.B.A. stock division.

Also:

TRAXXAS Silver Crown Series To Use Ethanol Fuel Beginning In 2012



read more at:
http://igniteracingfuel.com/blog/?p=97

Apples and oranges, one cannot compare stock/mod outboard gas engine fuel requirements to pro outboard or auto racing engines designed to run on alcohol.

BTW-do Indy car engines still run carburetors? And how about TRAXXAS Silver Crown cars, are they carbureted or fuel injection. Can't compare FI vs carb either.

[Bear513]

That was not the point of my last comment, My point being when you have the masses embracing a product and a minority holding onto old ways, guess who loses?
BTW- you skipped over the comment by Kapenracing, that NBRA uses Ethanol in its motors. (guess you couldn't try to figure out a way to spin that argument to you advantage).

[Danny Pigott]

Ethanol is putting money into the races, thats why they run it not because it is the best gas. As far as the past most people that know what has happened with the gas know that the old 100 oct. leaded is the best pump gas.

[kampenracing]

Ethanol

It was approved in NBRA 2 years before we received any sponsorship from ethanol.

[ricochet112]

That was not the point of my last comment, My point being when you have the masses embracing a product and a minority holding onto old ways, guess who loses?
BTW- you skipped over the comment by Kapenracing, that NBRA uses Ethanol in its motors. (guess you couldn't try to figure out a way to spin that argument to you advantage).

As an APBA inspector, I have advocated for pump gas to be the new standard and allowing "fuel of the day". It shouldn't have to be a game to get "legal gas” that usually doesn't come from the corner gas station anymore. Not just for E10 but other reformulated fuels as well, Cali has had this problem longer than the rest of the US.

No spin at all. Go back and re-read my post. Facts and 2 sarcastic questions. A fuel injection system that is sealed and has no exposure to atmospheric conditions cannot be compared to a carburetor engine that vents its gas tank directly to the atmosphere. And no, neither of the 2 series you mentioned runs carbs, its FI now. E10 will work good in a sealed FI system. If exposed to atmospheric conditions for any length of time though, E10 changes quickly, un-stabilized in a high humidity environment in as little as 30 days.

The timing seems suspicious in NASACR, 1 year after being sponsored by American Ethanol, they switch to fuel injection. It was long over due anyway, for what ever reason NASCAR finally got out of the dark ages in fuel delivery systems.

BTW- I know that NBRA allows E10, think it's great they do. In a Yamato E10 does little harm since thay have minimal rubber in the carbs.

[nbranews]

Maybe this will help

Here is some answers to some myth's about Ethanol blended fuels. Studies done by marine manufacturers.
Three Ethanol Myths Clarified
By Bob Adriance

It's time we get to the bottom of how E10 is affecting our engines

In the few years since ethanol began to be widely used in the United States, a lot has been written about its properties, the problems it's created, and how to best cope with its possible effects. Some of the advice has been based on science, some on hearsay. While E10 is not an ideal fuel – and E15 could cause serious problems for marine engines – at least a few myths about ethanol have arisen with the potential to do more harm than good:

Myth #1: Ethanol-enhanced gasoline (E10) loses octane much faster than regular gasoline.

Many mechanics believe that octane loss during winter storage could be great enough to damage an engine when it's run in the spring. These same mechanics will often recommend leaving the tank almost empty so that fresh gasoline can be added in the spring to raise depleted octane levels. While all gasoline loses octane as it ages, ethanol-enhanced gasoline loses octane at about the same rate as regular gasoline, according to Jim Simnick, a technical advisor at BP Global Fuels Technology, and Lew Gibbs, a senior engineering consultant and Chevron Fellow. The two men have over 75 years of combined experience working with gasoline and both agree that the loss of octane over the winter would not be sufficient to damage an engine. Note, however, to keep any gasoline, including E10, as fresh as possible; they said it's good practice to always add fuel stabilizer — an antioxidant — whenever the boat will be idle for long periods.

The recommendation to leave a tank mostly empty is bad advice; it could significantly increase the amount of water that gets into the tank. When enough water enters through the vent, the ethanol will separate ("phase separate") from the gasoline. Leaving a tank mostly empty does three things to increase the chances of phase separation:

It increases the volume of open space in the tank (its "lung capacity") so it can "breathe in" damaging moist air. An almost-empty tank leaves more space on tank walls for condensation to form. Leaving less gasoline in the tank means there will be less ethanol to absorb the condensation.

It's interesting to note that in areas of the Midwest that have been dealing with E10 for over a decade, topping off tanks is common practice. (As an alternative, completely emptying the tank would eliminate any chance of phase separation.)

If phase separation occurs, the highly corrosive ethanol/water mixture will settle to the bottom of the tank and remain there even after fresh fuel is added in the spring. The only way to remedy the problem would then be to drain the tank and add fresh gasoline. The best way to avoid phase separation over the winter (aside from emptying the tank) is to leave the tank 95-percent full (which allows for expansion) so that there's less moist air in the tank, less space for condensation to collect, and more gasoline to absorb whatever moisture does accumulate.

Myth #2: E10 attracts water, so it's important to install a water separator to prevent the water reaching the engine.

Mercury Marine, which recently hosted a Webinar on ethanol myths, noted that ethanol does not "grab water molecules out of the air." It is hydrophilic, which means ethanol holds water. With regular gasoline (E0) as well at E10, the primary cause of water collecting in tanks is condensation on tank walls. But unlike E0, which can absorb almost no moisture, E10 can hold up to half of one percent of water by volume, and the water molecules will dissolve in the fuel. The "solubilized" water will bypass the water separator and burn harmlessly through the engine. Only if phase separation were to occur would a water separator do its job, but by then the fuel itself would be the problem. The phase-separated water/ethanol mixture would settle on the bottom of the tank near the fuel pick-up and would quickly stall out or even damage your engine. And because ethanol is used to boost octane, the remaining (low-octane) gasoline at the top of the tank would also have the potential to damage your engine.

Note, however, that a fuel filter (10-micron) is essential to keep gunk from reaching your engine. Ethanol is a solvent that dissolves resins, rust, and dirt that have accumulated on older tank walls. Especially when you first make the transition to E10, it's important to carry spare filters and a galvanized bucket to store used filters prior to disposal. Even in new engines and tanks, E10 will sometimes form a mysterious gooey substance that will also clog filters. Richard Kolb, the manager of Emissions and Regulations for Volvo Penta, believes the goo is caused by water mixing with one or more of the 108 approved compounds that can be used in gasoline. These compounds vary among suppliers, so one solution is to change to a different brand of gasoline. Another is to use carburetor cleaner, which he says has sometimes remedied the problem.

Myth #3: Certain additives can prevent phase separation?

Both Gibbs and Simnick said that the additives that eliminate water may work incrementally to protect against phase separation, but Joe Simnick stressed that no additives will stand up to a good slug of water. Lew Gibbs added that the best way to prevent phase separation in E10 is to "keep it dry, keep it dry, keep it dry." That means keeping the tank filled to prevent condensation. Mercury Marine has also noted that, contrary to statements made by some companies that produce fuel additives, there are no additives that can make stale or phase-separated gasoline usable.

E10 is certainly not as trouble-free as E0, especially the first few tankfulls. But for newer engines, those built after about 1991, there's no reason the initial problems can't be overcome. No less an authority than Mercury Marine says, "After the transition period from E0, E10 may actually be a superior marine fuel as it tends to keep low levels of water moving through the fuel system, keeping the
system 'dry.'"

Bob Adriance is Editor of Seaworthy, the BoatUS Marine Insurance damage-avoidance publication, and author of Seaworthy, Essential Lessons of Things Gone Wrong (published by International Marine/McGraw Hill, available at www.Amazon.com and major bookstores).

[Bear513]

Glad you brought it up

The timing seems suspicious in NASACR, 1 year after being sponsored by American Ethanol, they switch to fuel injection. It was long over due anyway, for what ever reason NASCAR finally got out of the dark ages in fuel delivery systems.

Brad Keselowski blasts NASCAR's switch to fuel injection

"It has less throttle response, and it's harder to get to start (because) it takes a computer to start the **** thing," the NASCAR driver said. "It's a pain in the (butt). I don't see where fans get anything from it."

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/motor...ion/51127322/1

Brad Keselowski not happy with team's fuel system problems

With fuel pickup issues in two of the first seven races, it likely will be a while before Brad Keselowski has a much confidence in the fuel system in his Penske Racing car.

Keselowski finished in 36th, 22 laps down, last week at Texas because of the issue. At Las Vegas, the third race of the season, Keselowski finished eight laps down in 32nd.

Brad Keselowski's team is having trouble adjusting to the new electronic fuel-injection systems. (AP Photo)
This is the first year Cup teams are using electronic fuel-injection systems, and Keselowski’s team has had trouble with the change.

“We’ve obviously had troubles,” Keselowski said Friday at Kansas Speedway. “That’s not good. We’re working on it. The only way to know if you have the answer or not is when you get to the end of the race – is it running or not running?”

Read more: http://aol.sportingnews.com/nascar/s...#ixzz1vQZCzwgg

[YankeeRacing]

We should be able to figure out how to make MADE IN AMERICA fuel work.
Import all your cars, put the American Auto Workers out of a job. Import all of your fuel, put US FARMERS out of business.

[Bear513]

For Baffled Buyers, a Guide to Cars Made in North America

ABOUT 8.5 million cars and light trucks were assembled in the United States last year, but only about five million of those were made by the automakers traditionally known as the Big Three. More than three million of the vehicles assembled in American plants were built by autoworkers employed by foreign brands like BMW, Honda, Hyundai, Mercedes-Benz and Toyota.

Add to those the familiar Detroit nameplates coming from plants in Canada and Mexico and it’s easy to see how confusing it can be for consumers leaning toward the purchase of an “American” car. Which is the more American product, a Honda Accord built by Ohioans for a company with its headquarters in Japan, or a Ford Fusion built in Mexico for a corporation that is based in Michigan?

Read more @
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/21/au...s/21intro.html

[Bear513]

The U.S. exported more oil-based fuels than it imported in the first nine months of t

Looking at your heating bills or gas prices, you may find it surprising that the United States is enjoying a mini oil boom. It's producing more crude oil and, for the first time in decades, has become a net exporter of petroleum products such as jet fuel, heating oil and gasoline.


The U.S. exported more oil-based fuels than it imported in the first nine months of this year, making it likely that 2011 will be the first time since 1949 that the nation is a net exporter of such goods, primarily diesel.
That's not all. The U.S. has reversed another decades-long trend. It began producing more crude oil in 2008 than the year before and accelerated that upswing 3% in the first nine months of this year compared with the same period in 2010. That production has helped reduce U.S. imports of crude oil by about 10% since 2006.

Read more @

http://www.usatoday.com/money/indust...oom/52053236/1

[Bear513]

Interesting

History of Ethanol
Ethanol is not a new product. In the 1850s, nearly 90 million gallons were produced every year. At the beginning of the Civil War, a $2.08 per gallon tax was imposed on liquor to finance the war. Since ethanol is a product of fermentation, it was taxed as liquor. At the same time, competitors such as kerosene and methanol were taxed at only 10 cents a gallon. As a result, ethanol could not compete as a fuel, and disappeared from the market.

In 1906, the federal liquor tax was repealed and ethanol became competitive as a fuel. In 1908, Henry Ford designed his Model T Ford to run on a mixture of gasoline and alcohol, calling it the fuel of the future.

In 1919, the ethanol industry received another blow when the era of Prohibition began. Since ethanol was considered liquor, it could only be sold when poisons were added to make it undrinkable. In a process called denaturing, ethanol was rendered poisonous by the addition of 3-5% petroleum components.
By the 1920s, ethanol was no longer thought of as an alternative to gasoline; it was considered a gasoline extender or octane enhancer that boosts the power of the car's engine.

Read more @

http://www.learnaboutenergy.org/focus/part7.htm

[YankeeRacing]

Funny that you bring up the liquor connection... From our Iowa farm, we sell as much corn to Jack Daniels as we do to the ethonal plant. If we can't figure out a way to make it work in our engines lets at least drink a lot of whisky. We need to sell more corn to make it to more boat races. Connie

[krazy karl]

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/motor...ion/51127322/1





Read more: http://aol.sportingnews.com/nascar/s...#ixzz1vQZCzwgg

Looks like they figured it out. Almandinger, Brads team mate probably had the fastest car in the field in the All-Star race on Saturday. Didn't win but came from 22 to finish 2nd in a short sprint type of race and did pretty much the same in the consolation race earlier in the day after tire trouble. The two Dodges are fast, too bad Penske is going to Ford especially now that reportedly Fiat has said Chrysler is coming back.

NASCAR should look more closely on how the All-Star race was run, as it was one of the more exciting NASCAR races I have seen in years. The usual fare is a long droning dragged out affair that ends with a green, white, checkered ending. Can you say boring? One reason our boat racing is so much fun to watch and participate, short 3 lap heats. Always a new scenario every 15 minutes or so. Sorry on the thread hi-jacking.
kk aka Moparnut

[Dave M]

Old School

You know, at least someone is looking out for boat racing, and embracing new technology and accepting what is out there for fuel. And what did they get in return ? A HUGE amount of sponsorship dollars from the Refined Fuels Association.... hmmmm...... talk about tapping into a resource that is thinking outside the box, and embracing the new fuels. Bet the other folks can't solve their fuel issue within the next ten years... any takers on that bet ?