Methanol = GOOD - Ethanol = BAD

[Bill Huson]

Methanol is the fuel of choice for PRO racers and also fueled Indy offy engines back in the day. Good brew.

Ethanol in gasoline has caused Stock/Mod racers much grief. Now instead of "pump gas" we have to buy "racing gas." What a PITA.

And Ethanol is a nightmare for recreational boaters. End of last season the Naughty Lady was dead in the water, so I finally got around to fixing her. Apparently one of the users (not me) failed to add marine Stabil to the fuel. It had started to gel and wouldn't even go through the in-line filter mesh. 10 gallons of dead fuel dropped off at the HazMat site. Next up, clean the carbs. The Nikki carbs are prone to jam idle circuits with the most microscopic of trash and over the years I've them apart for a quick clean so many times I could probably do it in the dark. Not this time.

For the first time ever I had to pry the float bowls loose. And contained in the bowls was off-white to red-orange particles, flakes, and clumps of strange trash. Sorta looked like oatmeal, and there was enough in the two bowls to make an oatmeal cookie. And the oatmeal (?) trash was all through the carbs. I don't usually use rebuild kits for those frequent cleanings and the orange o-rings on the main jets survive many, many tear downs. Not this time., For the first time ever they were trash - one completely gone and the others FUBAR.

I am not happy with Ethanol. I would like to line up all the legislators who pushed the Ethanol mandate through, have them drop trou and bend over, and then I will insert a fuel nozzle in the appropriate orifice and give them an E-15 enema. Perfect.

[racingfan1]

Just another case of our legislators accepting the money from lobbiest without having all the information and thats as far as I will go because I dont want to turn this into a political debate.

I use Lucas oil injector cleaner and cylinder lubricant in all my small motors , lawn mower , leaf blower , chain saw , stihl trimmer and go-devil duck hunting motor, and it works really well. Never have a start up problem. Not sure if it would be legal in a racing motor tho !

[ricochet112]

Alcohols are classified as a solvent. Look at the ingredients of any marine (or auto) fuel system cleaner, it will contain isopropyl alcohol; it's more expensive but far more efficient for cleaning debris (varnish and organic buildup) and water absorption. But Ethanol is much easier, IE "cheaper" to make. Alcohols attract water, not might, but WILL absorb water in as little as a few days, than phase seperation occurs. Ethanol corrodes aluminum and dissolves rubber.

I sell a lot of water separating fuel filters, the new "non-permeable" fuel lines and bulbs and Startron enzyme fuel stabilizer, much more actual naptha in Startron than Stabil.

We lost our moral compass when we started growing food for our cars.

It's about lobbyists, politicians and big corps getting money, not about what’s wrong or right, or good or bad.

[Dave M]

User Error

Sounds like user error to me. No offense meant, but it is common knowedge that h2o is absorbed. To prevent exactly what happened to you, another step should have been taken to prevent it.

Ethonol is here to stay, might as well make it work. And besides, they sponsor boat racing and give us lots of dollars to do what we love, grass roots kneel down boat racing... Might be a good thing to not bite the hand that feeds us.

[ricochet112]

Ok, I 'll get right on that, I'll have all the humidity removed from the air tommorow.

I have no problems myself because I buy "clean gas", and refuse to run "corn gas" in anythiing I own that has a carburetor.

Bingo! Payola makes the lobbyist world go round.

[fhafer]

Hygroscopy...

Hygroscopy doesn't rely on user error...but don't let that get in the way of posting a comment. Sheesh.

[Bill Huson]

Huh - not sure why Ethanol would want to sponsor racing where Ethanol is illegal in fuel, but maybe their advert dude has been sipping from the pipeline.

Yes, user error. I use Marine Stabil, but the Naughty Lady is like the family & friends boat ride, so she has a lot of users and as I mentioned, someone failed to use Stabil. Now I will become more anal - found a couple places that have 89 or 91 octane Ethanol free, and I can always stop by Tidewater at the airport and load up on Avgas 100ll and hope the engine doesn't freak out. If she comes home from a play-date with unknown fuel I will drain it and dump it in the cars.

Oh yeah, I know about water. This rig is 1987 and standard off-season storage was full tank w/red Stabil. No problems even with 6 months or more chilly season storage. Then came Ethanol. I switched to blue Stabil, but doubt corn fuel will stay good for 6 months, maybe three. Next year drain tank dry for off-season.

Easy way to test the fuel - go to WOT. Clean fuel 52 MPH -corn gas 48 if I pick up a little tail wind. Another interesting perk of Ethanol = less power, less mileage.

[Bear513]

Still stuck in the dark ages?

Methanol is the fuel of choice for PRO racers and also fueled Indy offy engines back in the day. Good brew.

Ethanol in gasoline has caused Stock/Mod racers much grief. Now instead of "pump gas" we have to buy "racing gas." What a PITA.

And Ethanol is a nightmare for recreational boaters. End of last season the Naughty Lady was dead in the water, so I finally got around to fixing her. Apparently one of the users (not me) failed to add marine Stabil to the fuel. It had started to gel and wouldn't even go through the in-line filter mesh. 10 gallons of dead fuel dropped off at the HazMat site. Next up, clean the carbs. The Nikki carbs are prone to jam idle circuits with the most microscopic of trash and over the years I've them apart for a quick clean so many times I could probably do it in the dark. Not this time.

For the first time ever I had to pry the float bowls loose. And contained in the bowls was off-white to red-orange particles, flakes, and clumps of strange trash. Sorta looked like oatmeal, and there was enough in the two bowls to make an oatmeal cookie. And the oatmeal (?) trash was all through the carbs. I don't usually use rebuild kits for those frequent cleanings and the orange o-rings on the main jets survive many, many tear downs. Not this time., For the first time ever they were trash - one completely gone and the others FUBAR.

I am not happy with Ethanol. I would like to line up all the legislators who pushed the Ethanol mandate through, have them drop trou and bend over, and then I will insert a fuel nozzle in the appropriate orifice and give them an E-15 enema. Perfect.

With this mindset, I am surprised you all are not still arguing about Leaded vs. Unleaded gas.

[Danny Pigott]

I wish they still made leaded gas we would not be having all these problems

[doc 35-0]

I saw those same pink crystals when I torn down my pick up motor yesterday. I hadn't torn this carb down before and all the marine mechanics were busy. I can usually tear something down, it's putting it back together that is the problem..but low and behold the motor ran with new gas and oil and no bill from my marine.

[Bill Huson]

nah, no problem with lead . . .

With this mindset, I am surprised you all are not still arguing about Leaded vs. Unleaded gas.

Lead was a cheap way to jack octane. Back in the day the fear that unleaded would toast an engine was grossly overblown, and I never had a problem, lead or no lead. Now and again I would tank up with Amoco White and jack the timing a few degrees for the no lead 93 octane juice. Today if I dearly wanted leaded gas I could load up with Avgas 100ll (low lead).

Mt mindset is ticed off because unlike lead or no lead Ethanol does cause problems. Not for land vehicles because gas is burned up quick, but rec boats tend to stay idle and that gives a chance for Ethanol to do evil. This requires more preparation, more maintenance, and more oversight. In short, lots more work and I'm lazy

[Bob Rusnak]

A little maintenance and the problem is solved. If run or raced every weekend the carbs will be fine. If stored for a year, carb should be cleaned anyway. If some want to run AVGas let them do it. If others want to hunt for gas with no Ethanol, let them do it but don't make everyone have to hunt for so called special "legal fuel. Pump gas as bought has no advantage for added power so what is all the fuss. Ethanol is here to stay. I am not crazy about it but have no choice so I live with it. Just my opinion.....Bob

[blueskyracer]

A little maintenance and the problem is solved. If run or raced every weekend the carbs will be fine. If stored for a year, carb should be cleaned anyway. If some want to run AVGas let them do it. If others want to hunt for gas with no Ethanol, let them do it but don't make everyone have to hunt for so called special "legal fuel. Pump gas as bought has no advantage for added power so what is all the fuss. Ethanol is here to stay. I am not crazy about it but have no choice so I live with it. Just my opinion.....Bob

Bob that says it all..If you want to store it use the Startron (blue stuff not the pink) and you will have no problem..We found out the hard way with a $500 dollar repair bill on our two ATV's and never had a problem since..We run Ethanol fuel in all of our play toys and the minute we dont use them I add some stabalizer.. Like someone said there is no advantage using ethanol fuel since it has less power and mileage but it is here to stay..

Over here in Montana all the premium pumps are Ethanol free since the area was having trouble with all the snowmobiles, ATV's and boats..

If folks have to cheat when racing they will find a way and making folks work hard to find ethanol free gas is not the solution just another headache.. I have also read that they are working on a ethanol fuel for planes so then what you going to do?? Some racing groups have embraced it and I guess others......................

[Bear513]

Tw you do know that the Indy 500

Is next week, FYI they have been using Ethanol since at least 2007, I have not heard of their drivers complaining about their fuel, If it is good enough for 650 hp motors, I think it would be good enough for the A.P.B.A. stock division.

Also:

TRAXXAS Silver Crown Series To Use Ethanol Fuel Beginning In 2012

Our most recent findings have proven there are significant advantages to the use of ethanol based fuels over methanol for racing applications, with virtually no need for major changes required for the race vehicle. Bio-based fuels, such as ethanol, have been proven to be a cleaner burning fuel by up to 60% over conventional gasoline powered vehicles. Perhaps most significant is the use of ethanol versus methanol results in a fuel mileage increase of greater than 40%, with less fuel required resulting in a major safety enhancement. Additionally, we have found a safer environmental impact of the bio-based fuel versus methanol as a cleaner and safer fuel from a motorsports perspective, from fire control and spill containment.

read more at:
http://igniteracingfuel.com/blog/?p=97

[Bill Huson]

Bear513 - yes, but your link is AUTO racing. I agree that Ethanol laced fuel would run just dandy in a stock outboard, but it is ILLEGAL!!! As in if a fuel test show ethanol YOU WILL BE DISQUALIFIED.