Unions

[Art K]

Did not get on HR in time to respond to Mr. Pat Wright blaming the unions for all that is wrong with the US. I was a member of the Machinist union for over 40 years and dogone proud of it. Worked as a Technician at a new car dealership. Worked my butt off to make my employer a ton of money. And I really resent you painting me as some lazy ignorant
bum. The union made it possible for me to make a good living wage, and believe it or not race boats for the last 50 years.
You also state that peop;e become millionaires when they are hurt on the job. Well I had a serious arm injury that ended my career. 3 botched surgeries by the workmans comp doctors that left my arm a mess. Well my cash settlement about 98% less than the million you talk about. Thank God for my union retirement. All I can say I am sure glad that I don`t hate people because they have different views or they don`t look like me.
Art Kampen

[PopPop]

Unions

Thank you Art. Well said !!!! Unions are also the reason that a lot of non-union salary workers earn what they do. Corporations recognize that they have to pay something of a fair wage or the office workers would also be unionized.

[WalkF109]

The unions are one of the few things right in this country right now. I think everyone around racing knows about my work ethic and skills. Once again, he is standing up talking instead of sitting down listening. Boilermakers Local #60 and proud!

[Skoontz]

On the middle of that statement is, that there are good and bad in either union or non union shops. I have a withdrawl from the teamsters and operating engineers local 150.

When I started business I knew I could get my employees better insurance and a more comprehensive retirement package by maintaining a non union shop, and 99.9% of San Diego is non union. I had worked for both before...Always got a better deal working non union, and learned to appreciate hard work, so, our employees are rewarded for that based off well they perform. There is a base salary with benefits ta=hat can take them well over $50.00 an hour assuming they perform.

Unfortunately, the union, which was once a very needed system to protect the employee from jerk employers, stands up just as hard for the inept entitled moron who does not deserve a job at McDonalds sweeping floors let alone a good union shop.

While I have no issue with unions, time shave changed significantly since when they first came about. Realizing full well that work ethic hit the crap can right about the time generation X came about for many reasons, I will do anything within reason to keep a good employee around, and frankly, our work clearly shows that.

There should be no reason union and non union shops cannot work side by side at the same job site, so long as all was put to bid fairly, and, benefits such as insurance, vacations, and sick pay are not entitlements as some union members feel they are, just as it is not the employers responsibility to collect, and send in social security and withholding taxes. Since the government made that the employers issue, the average employee takes it for granted and has little to no clue as to how bad they are getting raped by uncle sam.

What I have seen unions evolve to, are organizations that are more interested in maintaining their personal expense accounts and salaries rather than "protect" their members.

Nothing wrong with either way, so long as everyone can work in agreement, and, each geographic area will sway to one or the other. In Chicago, if i was not holding a card, they goons would not allow me or my employees onto a job site, which, clearly is wrong, but, I respected that if I wanted to work, that was the way it was going to be.

Lastly, each state is different, but i really resent any union taking a portion of my dues and being allowed to send it in support of a political candidate who does not have my best interests in mind. I know some states they cannot do that, however in this nazi state, they can and do.

It is too bad that all union members get that label of being dumb, lazy etc. etc. There are many, matter of fact the vast majority of union members who I know, are great workers, and assets to their companies.

[raceright]

Did not get on HR in time to respond to Mr. Pat Wright blaming the unions for all that is wrong with the US. I was a member of the Machinist union for over 40 years and dogone proud of it. Worked as a Technician at a new car dealership. Worked my butt off to make my employer a ton of money. And I really resent you painting me as some lazy ignorant
bum. The union made it possible for me to make a good living wage, and believe it or not race boats for the last 50 years.
You also state that peop;e become millionaires when they are hurt on the job. Well I had a serious arm injury that ended my career. 3 botched surgeries by the workmans comp doctors that left my arm a mess. Well my cash settlement about 98% less than the million you talk about. Thank God for my union retirement. All I can say I am sure glad that I don`t hate people because they have different views or they don`t look like me.
Art Kampen

You got paid to make your employer alot of money as it should be. You also have your retirement that took you 40 years to get, I was a union roofer,my dad was a union roofer,I for the last 20 years own a union roofing Co in NYC and Long Island and my dad is rolling over in his grave because in todays society I have to hire 3 to 4 men at the rate of $85.00 (includes all bennies)
to do the work that men like yourself and he used to do. I believe the production of the Union employee as well as the hugh benifit packages some Unions recieve (mostly goverment unions) is the reason Pratt,Gm, Ford and so on have out sourced so much work (machining for one) to foreign countries. Five years ago one of my sons started his own non union co.
He put an add in the local newsday for help,got 3 responses nonshowed up,my office manager is bilingual she said why not put an add in the spanish paper we told her we will not hire illegals she would indicate that in the add first week we got 134 calls and hired 15 men all legal and atleast half were even born in the US. He trained them pay there health ins and taxes unemployment ins and so on with a starting wage of $20.00 per hr and they out preforme the union men every day are always at work willing to work saturdays and over time and thankful for there job. Just like employees want to hear you are doing a great jod bosses like to be thanked for being a good boss and one way you do this is to work like a man. I know both sides of the coin as having been there but one look at Michigan and Ohio's economy and I believe the Unions and Goverment regs have all but destroyed these one time prosperous states.

[sam]

Our local union sucks. Apprentices are treated so poorly most of them do not complete the program at a time when the industry is looking at a major shortage of trained techs and work that is becoming more complicated and technically oriented every day. After all that, starting scale is exactly equal to workers doing work at half the skill level in other trades. The pay shortage runs all the way to the top of the scale.

All this local does is pass our money up their insider old boy network to the national organization and kowtow to their other "brother" locals in other trades.

[Bill Huson]

I'm not a fan of unions . . .

But to be fair, my only direct experience with a union was in a state that did not have a "right to work" law. The union did not have to compete for the worker's business and the union abused that power.

Many moons ago after my tawdry exit from my first college - suspended twice and told not to reapply - I worked off my suspension time in a cookie factory in Fairlawn, NJ. No right to work law, and my first paycheck was about 40% light because the union nailed a $50 "Initiation Fee." And every other paycheck after was light $4 for "dues." A few weeks into the job the shop steward informed me I had to go to the office in Passiac and fill out forms. I said no, Passiac is way outta my normal path of travel. Shop steward bristled and said if my attitude didn't improve *something* would happen to my car, like slashed tires or the like. At the time I was hanging out with the "greasers" in the Ridgewood, NJ town park. One greaser named Tony claimed to have formed a coalition of gangs and had given me an actual business card. I showed shop steward the card from the "Tri-State Warriors" and told him if they messed with my car within a week everyone at the plant would be walking home. He began to sweat. So I said you want to fill out your silly forms, bring them to work I'll fill out on my break. He did. Within a month, probably because I could read and write, I was promoted to the admin/management side of the cookie factory - end of union involvement.

Unions can be ugly, and they can be good. With no right to work law, ugly seems to prevail.

[immulmen]

In the 80's I had a wife, 2 kids and 1 on the way and worked on cars at a union car dealer. When the shop moved to the next town and got rid of the union I quit because the union was needed to keep the owner in check. later I worked at Portland Volvo that was non union. This was the best shop I ever worked in.
I checked out a car that they bought at an auction and found it had a cracked piston. It was a Ford Fairmont station wagon with a 2.3L pinto engine and 4 speed standard trany. Needing a second car for me to commute to work I asked the owners son, who ran the dealership, what he wanted for it. I was told $300. Knowing he had $100 plus transporting and time in it I thought this was fair and told him I will bring the money the next day. The next day he told me he made a mistake and the car was $600. When I told him I would only pay $300 like we agreed he sead "What are you trying to do, screw me like the customers try". The service manager overhead us and after I left told the kid [he was around 25] that he was going to sell the car to me for $300 or he would have a talk with his father.
I got the car, fixed it with a used piston, new rod bearings and rings and ran it for three years.
Chris Jordan

[PopPop]

YING and YANG

YING and YANG
We all view the world from our own perspective. All systems in the universe seek equilibrium, weather it be interplanetary forces, biological interactions or human relations. On the human level opposing forces both within the person and between people prevail in many forms; good and evil, altruism and greed, etc. And so it is for human systems such as politics business and unions. No one begrudges a man who works to achieve a better life in a manner that is both profitable and fair to his fellow man. This applies to both the business person who takes a risk and sets up a business or the working person who gives an honest days labor to better themselves. However at play within all are for forces of honesty and greed. For most, I believe we are mostly driven by human fairness and honesty. On both sides of the union/business world these forces are always present. We live in a country of laws and those laws are designed primarily to keep us honest. Without them, some people, including business people and workers alike will try to take more than they give. Sometime we even see this in our otherwise honest fellow racers. That is why there must be rules in all human societies.
We ain’t poorfect.

[Inside Lane]

Question

Who is the guy that was born the same day you were, that is suppose to start a company so you will have a job?

[WalkF109]

I have many great friends whom I have nothing in common with politically; In fact, I drive a boat for one of them. All of us on this site should stick to the things that we do share similar interests in, such as boat racing. Let's leave it up to the ballot box; do your part and vote your interests, then let's go racin'! Many friendships will be saved.

[F-111]

Tony said it best! While I have enjoyed reading the give and take and seeing various opposing viewpoints, politics is not for the faint of heart, and can only lead to some hurt feelings or misunderstanding if you're not able to handle it. Vote your conscience, see you in the first turn, and we'll have some beers after. Enjoying the debate though and thanks for keeping it somewhat civil.


PS- Tony count me in for the canoe trip if there's room.

[HRTV]

Good thread folks lets shut these down for the weekend and get back to racing!

Enjoy