Round 2: Talking photos and videos

[sponsonhead]

So, the whole purpose of round one was to reveal what photographic or video evidence can or cannot show us. In the case of ASH Grass Lake, it proved one person innocent.

We all know there have been cases where calls have been made or not made, only to have visual evidence in the form of photos or videos refute the decision.

We live in an age where there is a video camera on the shoreline, in our phones, on a driver's helmet. Digital photography abounds at most race sites from numerous vantage points. Technology that didn't exist 3-5 years ago is commonplace now at our races, in the form of Mychron 4's, Go-Pro Cameras, GPS units and more. We've done a great job in many cases of embracing that technology to our advantage in some instances, and in others we cling to the dark ages school of thought because "that's the way we've always done it."

At present, APBA does not allow photographic/video evidence to be used in an appeal or protest, except in the OPC category. I've mentioned this to people who race in other motorsports, and they give me THAT look: you know, the 'you gotta be sh!tting me!' look.

So, my question to all you experts, wanna-be experts, and keyboard racers out there:

Is it time for APBA to consider allowing videos and/or photos to be allowed in the protest/appeal process? Why, or why not. And if your answer is yes, how would you implement it?

Fire away,

R-19

[blueskyracer]

Patrick I guess calling a person in you picture would be hard to say..Is the boat being chopped or could he not hold his lane or is the spray so bad he is crossing over without knowing it..I think the only way to make a good call is from overhead with video..

I also believe the overlap should be more than one boat..The current rule basically allows anything to go as long as no paint is transfered..

I must say with the current style of racing having the outcome for the heat always decided in the first corner does nothing for spectator appeal

[Howie Nichols]

I say allow the use of pics/videos to VALIDATE a call not to make one.

ie... in the ASH & AXH case it would have overturned the Chop call.

[MGallagher]

I believe the current rule is that photos and/or video are allowed to be used as an aide to make the call. The problem, I feel, is that the photo position is not standardized. The reference and position of the picture must be taken into account. The perfect example, was that ASH call. We had all these photos submitted by photographers in the pits, then a picture came from the first turn boat which cleared up a lot of speculation from the first photos.

[sponsonhead]

Current Rulebook

I believe the current rule is that photos and/or video are allowed to be used as an aide to make the call. The problem, I feel, is that the photo position is not standardized. The reference and position of the picture must be taken into account. The perfect example, was that ASH call. We had all these photos submitted by photographers in the pits, then a picture came from the first turn boat which cleared up a lot of speculation from the first photos.

APBA Rules (source apba-racing.com):

GRR Rule 10, Starting Methods:

D. With the exception of the OPC Category, race officials may not use videotapes to assist decision making except for starts and finishes.

GRR Rule 23, Appeals:

3. With the exception of the OPC Category, the use of videotapes is not permissible in an appeal.

OPC Racing Rules, Rule 3 General:

11. Race officials may use videotapes to assist decision-making, including starts and finishes, and appeals.

There is no mention anywhere that still photos can or cannot be used in assisting a decision making process.

R-19

[PittmanRacing]

From and OPC racer now in SO

Having raced in OPC before and after allowing "videotape" review, I don't recall any drivers complaining of it's use nor rulings made upon videotape review. Furthmore it did not slow down the racing event/schedule. Videotape does require a little more time to review than still pictures, yet we use them to very well to review starts. Turn judges do an excellent job when looking at 5-12 boats across an entire turn going 50+ mph. Using a little technology to verify what they believed happened seems wise.

While angle and perspective of the camera are important to consider, the same is true for the turn judge.

[ajennings4p]

as i like the idea of using video/photos, i don't think that a still photo will help, as the picture that pat posed you can not tell what happen, it could be the driver that is behind is crossing the wake to get the inside lane for the start, you cant tell where the commitment buoys is to determine a lane change. so you might think that something happened when no driving infraction was made. but as stated above you cant use videos except for the start. why try to change something when it has worked for how many years?

[sponsonhead]

why try to change something when it has worked for how many years?

I get your point AJ, but let me attempt to answer this with another question:

Do you use a Keller Speedometer in your boat, or an electronic GPS with a tach integrated?

Things change: Electricity. Flush Toilets. Internet. Follow me?

R-19

[ajennings4p]

pat i follow, but a single picture can not describe what happened, the pictures of ASH, however do show information. All saying a single photo wont show all the information needed to make a decision. i like the idea still, just would say a video is better to have then a single picture. or if you get a series of pics like you did for ASH would be better also.

[sponsonhead]

Exactly

Totally agree AJ, and we learned from the Grass Lake sequence that one picture does not tell the story.

And I agree with Howie that visual (video or still photo) evidence should be used to validate rather than initiate a call.....and like the NFL does, only applies when there is CONCLUSIVE evidence that a call should be overturned.

R-19

PS- the picture at the beginning of this post was put up more as a catalyst to get the topic moving, not a "you make the call" item.