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The 2005 race season was my introduction to shooting races. I got involved because my sister and brother-in-law were racing and wanted pictures of their boat. It turned out that I had a knack for the timing and positioning of my shots. Mostly because I would hang around all the racers afterwords and listen to them discuss the course I could find the areas where the best action shots were. Also I would let them preview the day's photos and learned quickly what made a good shot. I was asked by Mike from Champboat race series to drive to Pittsburgh for a weekend and shoot the race for him. He signed a contract, got the pictures and now will honor the contract. I'm out the money it took shoot the weekend. I do this mostly because I enjoy the company of the drivers and crew, I make very little money, most of the time I barely get back gas, food, and loging expenses. I have never had an issue and because I'm often the ONLY professional photographer at the race everyone has been really nice. Mike has stated that he NEVER pays for pictures. I don't believe this, it takes a lot of time, effort, and cash to even shoot a race as you must know. But have you had simmilar expierences and what do you look out for to avoid this kind of mess.
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Sad to see no posts for you. I also shoot some pictures. I have never asked for money for any pictures I have taken. However, I am taking the pictures to get my name out there. Later I will for sure charge.
You say a contract was signed? Sorry but at that point you would have known if you were getting paid. If that contract said nothing about money you should have asked right there and then. If i sign a contract to shoot a wedding and I sign it and there is nothing mentioned about the price I'd think the bride and groom could take it to court and show I made no mention of being paid, and they'd win.
Sorry to hear you lost out. I have to believe that this many years later you've got it worked out.
Pictures of mine can be seen at www.haysphotography.netLast edited by H&H Rescue; 02-25-2008, 08:37 AM.Training like your life depends on it. -
I'm not a Photographer, but here is the experience I have had.
At one time a Photographer would come to all the races and shoot actions shots of the boats, then the next race he would bring the prints and sell them to the drivers.
Another time I was in charge of a race and I hired a Photographer for a flat fee to come and shoot at the race. I got the photos I wanted and he sold the rest to the drivers.
This past summer, at the Nationals, a Photographer approached me and asked if I wanted some pictures of my boat. I said yes and paid him, then later he sent me a cd of the entire weekend including several shots of me.
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Hi Redwing
I think what Tim Chance related is pretty much how it goes. Selling photos to racers is about trust - you need to build the good karma up with them first, and then don't try to make a living off of selling a couple of shots. Sounds like you did that part just right.
I sell very few shots, but I don't try too hard as I also have them available on Webshots for anybody clever enough to make a capture. I think I have at least a dozen folks on HR with one of my shots as an avatar, and probably four times that many have one on their desktop at home or work. Just remember where you got it
. That's what I do. I try not to make it too much of a business relationship, becase these are people I see every weekend. I've heard the same comment made about not dating boat racers 
The money in boat racing photography is shooting for magazines, even better if you write articles to go with the shots. Racing publications can't afford much in the way of travel staff, so they willingly accept stuff from folks who are at the race anyway. The only publication I do stuff for is Propeller, because I get too pissy about for-profit media. I'd probably be too pissy to shoot for a series or a race if I was asked to. Your experience hasn't improved that outlook.
The first part of your post was indicative of the experience most of us have - stick with that and enjoy it. I have. You might even find yourself owning one of these **** things.
Mike Johnson
World Headquarters
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Portland, Oregon
Johnson RacingComment
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A few things...Originally posted by H&H Rescue View Post
The contract was signed and the price was LOW... enough to cover expenses and a few bucks. I own a software business and giving terms is a normal business to business practice. If they were using my software and it wasn't paid for it would stop working. Giving the fact that shutting down a GM/Ford production line costs thousands of dollars a minute getting paid isn't a problem. Not getting paid for hard work de-values all photographers work. It costs at least $4 in paper and ink to print a 13x19 pic. I cant give it away, If I were to I wouldn't be shooting long. It costs me around $75 in gas alone, plus food, plus time I could be shooting another gig. I do this because I love the people and the sport, not to make $$. I have donated many shots to worthwhile causes, its not about the $$. I have been published regularly in Propeller and even have a shot on last months cover. Their isn't much money there either. Did you notice that Champboat brought in a "Pro" last year for shots? At the time they had a link to his site. It imediately dissapeared after the race, hope he didn't have an issue also. I don't want to see you have one either. The thing about these races is it's a BIG course, I cant be everywhere but when something interesting happens the racers like to see it (most of the time, I cant bring myself to show everything. Some shots I would rather not have taken, its just a reflex... like Trenton in 2006). I see you have attended many of the same races that I have Introduce yourself next time. Just look for the B-52 SLT Julie Venier is my sister.
BTW.. my photos are at www.phunfotography.comLast edited by red_wing_ii; 02-25-2008, 11:19 PM.Comment
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I'd be more than happy to meet ya. I won't be in Bay City this year. I'll be in Battle Creek doing rescue. But I'll for sure buy you a "beverage" in Big Rapids. Any chance would you look at this and tell me what you think?
http://richhays.photium.com/photo639816.html
I don't ask for any money for my pictures. I am not going to step on the toes of the guys (Leo) that make money doing it. He's a GREAT guy, not going to mess with him.
Went to your sight. Looked at the Big Rapids Race. I love picture #688, to bad it is the wrong rescue boat! That is another idea for you photographers. I have YET to buy a picture of myself doing rescue. If your at a race and the rescue team is "in action" take some shots. if it is us we'll buy a picture. been doing this about 12 years and don't have a single picture fo us "in action".Last edited by H&H Rescue; 02-27-2008, 12:31 PM.Training like your life depends on it.Comment
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The shots on the web are good enough to sell provided you can clean them up with some basic photoshop skills and their is enough resolution for a quality print. Learning that stuff is easy enough. I post raw shots and edit them if their purchased. As you can see I try to get at least 2 shots of every boat running. I never know who wants what or what is going to make that particular race special for someone. Some of my best shots are never purchased and some of my worst are. And I never know when... I have had large prints sell in December of a race months old. Likely Christmas presents and every shot no matter how good or bad of a particular boat. My guess is scrapbook content. It costs me about $100 a year for the print site and have alwasys sold enough prints to pay for it.
Im glad you were able to shoot Big Rapids last year. The B-52 had a foregin crew (I think Evan came up and someone else) because of Indian River and I was in the hospital. Hopefully things will go better this year.
I shoot the rescue crew often, but don't post many. I will start doing that. Mark Hodorek (SLT 77) works with Lockemans who as I understand it helps out with the rescue boats, are you part of that group?Comment
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one example.....Attached FilesComment
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First of all I like the above picture. For two reasons, the most important is the number 4 boat driven by the late Kevin Ladd. 2nd you got the crew.
Our rescue crew is made up of 3 guys. At this point we only do rescue for MHRA, can't really see doing it for anyone else. The only time we may have a racer in the boat is if they sign up to drive one of the boats. (or maybe need a ride to shore). I take pictures mostly while the boats are in milling. I have a hard time taking picture during a race, my job is dedicated to rescue not pictures. So when the flag drops my focus is on the racers. I have taken very few "action" shots, seams if we are doing something that you could deem as "action" i am on alert and the camera is in the bag. Once things are good i might whip it out and get a shot. Here is most likely the best action shot i have taken. http://richhays.photium.com/photo639828.html the driver was fine and the boat was tied up, i had nothing to do but take a picture. If your ever to a race by MHRA please look me up. And if you get me doing something other than sleeping I'll by the picture!Training like your life depends on it.Comment
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Who is that guy in the yellow shirt in the rescue boat? Just joking. We have done a lot of time together in the rescue boat at Dayton through the past few years. Good to see you in action. JackComment
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#4 is the reason I chose that one, I take a lot of shots, Here is my best action shots
Funny enough, those are some of the pictures I having issues collecting for from
Mike...Attached FilesLast edited by red_wing_ii; 03-04-2008, 12:46 PM.Comment
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Jack good hearing from ya. Yep that's your right hand man Al. Careful I am sure i have some pictures of you around here!Originally posted by Jack Stotts View Post
We are doing the Nationals in Grass Lake next year, so if you'd like to come hang out you are one guy that will always be welcome in the driver seat of our boats.
MUSHY MUSHY
Hows this one?Attached FilesTraining like your life depends on it.Comment
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I have been shooting races since 2006. I have been selling them over the internet. The sales have been good, but not great. I too have had pictures published in Propeller. It pays for some of my travel and expenses. What I do enjoy is being around the racers and their boats, you could not ask for a nicer group of people.
I've never been paid to go to a race. I wouldn't think there is that many racers out there that would not honor a signed contract. It sounds like they expect something for nothing. I would steer clear from them and move on. There are lot of nice people out there in this sport.
Garrett
http://pictures.bytesandpix.com/sportsComment
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